STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Maddie · Coach

RE: What to do?

honey · Gucci

most of the careers you listed require some sort of education and/or formal training with the exception of maybe retail buyer (though that is arguable b/c a lot of the training programs require that you have a bachelor's) wedding planner, and bridal boutique sales associate. of the careers you listed the only thing i know about is retail buying b/c it's something i've looked into. like nylabelle said a lot of stores have management training programs. if you go onto the sites for most major stores you'll probably see info. on the programs under the career section. you can also start from the bottom (in a figurative sense) up by just getting a job in a store and working your way up. though i think the first option might be more logical since there is a clearly delineated (sp?) career path. something else to consider -- a lot of people are under the impression that retail buying is purely about picking cute clothes (not implying that you're one of these people, it's just the general impression that i've gotten from talking to people) it's not. there's a lot of math, statistics, & logic involved, b/c you're not just picking clothes for the sake of putting together outfits. you have to calculate profit margins, and think about how the clothes will appeal to consumers in different areas (i.e what's popular in nyc might not fly so well in tulsa). just some more things to think about.

i think that for most people finding a career is a series of trial and error. not that you settle but sometimes you think something is ideal for you until you actually try it out and realize that it sucks.

also don't think of masters' as a dirty word. granted i'm a huge advocate of education, but there are a lot of benefits to an advanced degree. you're obviously intelligent and capable so don't necessarily rule something out b/c it requires a degree.

bex · Chanel

gruiz wrote:

I think you should give it a shot. I've found it's much easier to get another job once you have a job (if that makes sense). It'll kind of give you a jumpstart to figure out what it is you really want to do.

ditto to this!

when i graduated from college, it took me a solid year to find a position. once i did, each job after was so much easier to obtain b/c i already was working. i feel that i was wise with my job choices because they completley prepared me for the job i have now (which is my dream job!).

that being said, i would take it. it doesn't hurt to be able to sock money away for a rainy day and it would be easy b/c you could carpool with hubby.

whatever you decide- good luck!

Elle · Hermes

honey wrote:

i think that for most people finding a career is a series of trial and error. not that you settle but sometimes you think something is ideal for you until you actually try it out and realize that it sucks.

I wholeheartedly agree - but I'd rather find out before, rather than after, putting a year or two in a at job or heaven forbid 2 or 4 years in at school!

also don't think of masters' as a dirty word. granted i'm a huge advocate of education, but there are a lot of benefits to an advanced degree. you're obviously intelligent and capable so don't necessarily rule something out b/c it requires a degree.

This is somewhat of a hotbutton issue for me, for various reasons. Let's just say that while I agree that education is a good thing, I am not willing under any circumstances to get a masters degree. Honestly my feelings are those of bitterness, since the job market has been crappy for so long that employers are requesting bachelor's degrees because they can, not because it's needed to perform the job per se. I refuse to perpetuate that game, and I'll find another way to succeed if that's what it comes down to. It's a shame that common sense and life experience are so undervalued by employers, maybe because they are more difficult to measure. What, no Sufficient Life Experience certificate ? Most of this doesn't apply to technical/vocational programs of course, or education gotten for the express purpose of obtaining a job in that field.

I'd just rather get it right the first time and be able to live my life. Never have been a very career-driven person, so it feels counterintuitive to put so much time, effort, and money into something that I really only want out of necessity, no? Unless we can officially create a job titled Professional Stylethread Poster? Or how 'bout Professional Lazy Bum? Professional Do-What-I-Wanter?

I appreciate all the thought-provoking posts, which has helped me better organize how and why I feel they way I do about all of this. Good stuff, ladies, good stuff!

ETA: Bex, what do you do?

-- Edited by LMonet at 20:20, 2005-10-10

Maddie · Coach

LMonet wrote:

This is somewhat of a hotbutton issue for me, for various reasons. Let's just say that while I agree that education is a good thing, I am not willing under any circumstances to get a masters degree. Honestly my feelings are those of bitterness, since the job market has been crappy for so long that employers are requesting bachelor's degrees because they can, not because it's needed to perform the job per se. I refuse to perpetuate that game, and I'll find another way to succeed if that's what it comes down to. It's a shame that common sense and life experience are so undervalued by employers, maybe because they are more difficult to measure. What, no Sufficient Life Experience certificate ? Most of this doesn't apply to technical/vocational programs of course, or education gotten for the express purpose of obtaining a job in that field.
I'd just rather get it right the first time and be able to live my life. Never have been a very career-driven person, so it feels counterintuitive to put so much time, effort, and money into something that I really only want out of necessity, no? Unless we can officially create a job titled Professional Stylethread Poster? Or how 'bout Professional Lazy Bum? Professional Do-What-I-Wanter?

Again, let me preface this with the fact that I have never really been in the job market.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I think it's a mistake to rule out all masters programs. For example, if you wanted to be a marine biologist, you simply would not be prepared to do anything of substance with only a B.S. in biology. Although I've never really applied for a job that was at all hard to get, I do have an idea of what you come out of an undergraduate program in biology knowing, and it would just not be sufficient. I defintely see your point about education not really preparing you to do the job, but I don't think this is true in every or even most circumstances. I'll most likely graduate with a degree in poli sci. While this is very nice, I'll most likely need to go to grad school to do anything I really want to do, not only because a B.A. won't be enough to get a job, but because I won't have the knowllege required to do the job.

kenzie · Chanel

LMonet wrote:

Honestly my feelings are those of bitterness, since the job market has been crappy for so long that employers are requesting bachelor's degrees because they can, not because it's needed to perform the job per se. I refuse to perpetuate that game, and I'll find another way to succeed if that's what it comes down to.

Oh, I so understand what you're saying!! The position that I'm in certainly doesn't require a degree, but these people keep hiring people who have degrees, telling them that they'll promote them (and 9 times out of 10, they don't). I just don't understand why they want an ovbiously overqualified person in this type of position b/c it just makes the turnover that much greater. No college educated person (and most high school graduates) wouldn't be content in this kind of position.

I hate looking at job listings for admin. assistants and seeing 'bachelor's degree required.' It doesn't required a degree to do that kind of job. And you're right, it does perpetuate a vicious cycle. Pretty soon 'entry-level' positions will require a master's degree.

That said, there are definitely certain jobs that require a master's degree (and always have). I would like to get a master's degree eventually, but I'm so paranoid, that I'll get a master's degree and still be working some crappy job. Then I'll be ten times as bitter as I am now.

laken1 · Hermes

LMonet wrote:

Professional Do-What-I-Wanter??-- Edited by LMonet at 20:20, 2005-10-10

Oh, ME, ME!!! I want to sign up for this one!

lynnie · Chanel

i think you should take the job, unless you'd hate it or think it would be too much time with FH (or maybe it would be great to work with him!). It was basically given to you, the pay is good, and I *think* you're pretty young, so you don't have to know what you want to do yet. I agree with the girls that say its easier to find a job when you have one- you're in that mindset, you're motivated, you're meeting other professionals... Note- this is only in a job you don't hate. AND you might think you don't *need* the money, but if you really don't- put it ALL away. Every penny of it- maybe keep a modest portion for fun money. You will always eventually *need* the money- you might want to start your own business some day, invest in real estate or a vacation home, put it towards retirement...something will come up, i guarantee it. Just keep your standard of living the same, and you can save so much money, all the while, keeping yourself somewhat busy so you don't want to spend it as much. I know you can't quit right away, but surely you can in a year or so if you find something better. i dont think the hospital would offer one of their employee's wives a terrible position.

Elle · Hermes

Maddie wrote:

Again, let me preface this with the fact that I have never really been in the job market. I agree with you to a certain extent, but I think it's a mistake to rule out all masters programs. For example, if you wanted to be a marine biologist, you simply would not be prepared to do anything of substance with only a B.S. in biology. Although I've never really applied for a job that was at all hard to get, I do have an idea of what you come out of an undergraduate program in biology knowing, and it would just not be sufficient. I defintely see your point about education not really preparing you to do the job, but I don't think this is true in every or even most circumstances. I'll most likely graduate with a degree in poli sci. While this is very nice, I'll most likely need to go to grad school to do anything I really want to do, not only because a B.A. won't be enough to get a job, but because I won't have the knowllege required to do the job.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you! Marine biologists should have masters degrees! But any want that I ever had to actually be one is completely negated by the fact that I would need such an advanced degree to do it. The price would be too high for what I'd be getting in return, and I understand that for some people that isn't true - it's my own life and goals that make it so.

I'm glad you weighed in on that point Nyla - I thought you'd have an opinion about that particular situation!

Let me say that there are plenty of people who never get the opportunity to go to college at all, and I think it's a shame if that's what they want to do. BUT, going to college is pushed so hard by schools/parents/etc these days! And it doesn't guarantee you a damn thing! IMO many young people (including a great many of the people I myself went to school with) are mislead into thinking that as long as they go to college everything will be okay. For some it's the right choice. For others, they end up blowing a lot of time and money on something that may or may not benefit them in the future. It's great to be educated if that's what you want, but getting an education doesn't always get you where you want to be. Unless you want to be a marine biologist, of course .

Maddie - If you don't mind my asking, why isn't a BA enough education to get the job you want?

kenzie · Chanel

LMonet wrote:

I'm glad you weighed in on that point Nyla - I thought you'd have an opinion about that particular situation!

Maddie - If you don't mind my asking, why isn't a BA enough education to get the job you want?

Yep, you bet I have an opinion about that. I always knew that I wanted to go to college (I'm a dork and like school, what can I say), but also went to college with the mindset that I would have a better life careerwise than I would if I didn't go to college. I couldn't have been more wrong. I'm in debt for a useless education. And I'm so bitter and getting more and more bitter with every day that passes.

I would love to get a second bachelor's degree (BFA in either jewelry design or graphic design), but I'm convinced it wouldn't get me anywhere (why should it?). And I would love to get an MBA, but I fear that won't get me anywhere either. I would love to really start my own company (I have so many ideas for business), but I'm completely lacking the capital for it, mostly b/c I'm in debt from school and it's hard to save. I'm also convinced that I'll only be successful if I work for myself, but where am I supposed to get the funds for that when I'm so in debt and working a crappy job?

Maddie, I'm curious, too about your BA comment. My bf has a BA in poli-sci and a minor in econ and he has a great job in finance. He's planning to get an MBA, but he has a position now that usually requires 10 years experience. Granted that's more related to econ than poli-sci, but I'm just curious.

ETA: I absolutely stand by my opinion that you shouldn't take the job. I disagree that it's easier to find a job when you have a job. This may be true if you're looking for a job in the same field or if you're looking to move from entry level to middle management, but it's not true for lateral career moves or 'jobs' that aren't really 'careers' (or that you don't want as a career). For example, I had no problem getting new retail management jobs once I was already in that position, but I'm still having a hell of a time finding a job in my field.

If you are toiling away at a life-sucking job, you are going to be too tired to search for your real passion. You won't have time to go to interviews, etc. I've been in both situations and I found it much easier to look for a job when I didn't have a job than now, when I have a job trying to find the time to go to interviews, write decent cover letters, etc.

When I didn't have a day job, I still wrote for websites, I still designed jewelry and even though that wasn't a 'real' job, I still kept myself busy with career related activities. My advice is this, start writing again for ST, find something else to do just one or two days a week (even if it's retail...at least you'll get discounts!). Then keep trying to find your passion. Take classes. No one will look down on you for taking classes! Do not take this job!! JMO!

-- Edited by NylaBelle at 11:11, 2005-10-11

Maddie · Coach

I think there's lots of stuff you can do with a BA, particularly in business. I do agree that it's ridiculous to have to get a masters, or in a lot of cases even a BA to do a lot of jobs that you really don't put those skills to use at all.

However, I would be horrible at any sort of business thing and thus don't think I should explore that career oppurtunity. One thing I'm thinking about now is going into academia, which would require a ton of schooling, and rightly so. Another is journalism which I would possibly even end up getting two masters for. I know nothing about Journalism and my major won't exactly prep me for it. So it would be good to go to grad school in that, and also possibly in some area of interest. I'm also thinking about working for an NGO, the UN, or some sort of government thing abroad where a back ground of a BA in political science wouldn't be able to get me the jobs I wanted, not just because they could hire MAs, but because I wouldn't know enough about the issues or have enough back ground to understand them well. And not that I'm saying you're accusing me of this, but it's stuff I've really looked into and talked to professors in my department about and stuff, not just something I've made up. It's kind of shocking to me to realize how little I will actually know after graduating college compared to what I thought of college graduates before college.

-- Edited by Maddie at 13:14, 2005-10-11

Elle · Hermes

Wow Maddie, that sounds really cool! And even with my views on all of this, it sounds to me like your education (completed and future) are completely necessary for your goals. You know yourself and your situation well - that's always a good thing.

-- Edited by LMonet at 13:26, 2005-10-11

Maddie · Coach

Haha, funny you should say that. I'm big into planning and not so much into following through. Next week I will most likely decided that it is my life long goal be an investment banker and I must change majors immediatly! I'm actually a mess and am constantly changing my mind. This career path is the flavor of the week (actually this is about month 6).

kenzie · Chanel

Maddie wrote:

Another is journalism which I would possibly even end up getting two masters for. I know nothing about Journalism and my major won't exactly prep me for it. So it would be good to go to grad school in that, and also possibly in some area of interest.

Just an FYI regarding journalism -- You definitely don't need a master's in it if you did it in undergrad (actually, most of my professors said that it would be kind of waste of time to get an MJ if you already had the BA). But, a poli-sci major is an awesome set-up to a master's in Journalism b/c you could be a political writer or something of that nature. If you really decide to go the journalism route, I recommend minoring in English and taking as many writing intensive courses as you can.

-- Edited by NylaBelle at 14:13, 2005-10-11

Maddie · Coach

Sorry to hijack your thread, LMonet!

NylaBelle, I was contemplating minoring in English, but my school, being as fun as it is, doesn't offer an English minor. And they only offer two writing classes, Beginning Prose and Advanced Prose. That's it. So I'll be taking those, but I don't really want to take any other English classes cause I just don't care about the Brontes and I could do just as much writing in classes in other departments. Regarding journalism school, my impression was that if I want to work at some local paper or something, I won't need a masters, but if I want to write for a good paper and get good stories I would need some sort of advanced degree. Even if it was maybe in something other than journalism.

kenzie · Chanel

Maddie wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, LMonet! NylaBelle, I was contemplating minoring in English, but my school, being as fun as it is, doesn't offer an English minor. And they only offer two writing classes, Beginning Prose and Advanced Prose. That's it. So I'll be taking those, but I don't really want to take any other English classes cause I just don't care about the Brontes and I could do just as much writing in classes in other departments. Regarding journalism school, my impression was that if I want to work at some local paper or something, I won't need a masters, but if I want to write for a good paper and get good stories I would need some sort of advanced degree. Even if it was maybe in something other than journalism.

Wow...no English minor...anything in writing at all? A communications minor? I definitely think you're on the right track by taking as many writing intensive classes as possible (no matter what the subject). This is what I did in college, partly b/c I was a journalism major and partly b/c I knew it was pretty much a guaranteed 'A' for me without much effort if it involved writing and not lots of testing (unless, of course, the tests were essays ).

As far as journalism school, most people who do it in undergrad go on to do other things for grad school (business and law are pretty common), but just about any major (with the right writing courses) can set you up for grad school in journalism.

*sorry for the thread hijack

Elle · Hermes

Hijack with all the wild abandon that you can muster! I got what I needed - discuss away!

halleybird · Hermes

NylaBelle wrote:

Maddie wrote: Sorry to hijack your thread, LMonet! NylaBelle, I was contemplating minoring in English, but my school, being as fun as it is, doesn't offer an English minor. And they only offer two writing classes, Beginning Prose and Advanced Prose. That's it. So I'll be taking those, but I don't really want to take any other English classes cause I just don't care about the Brontes and I could do just as much writing in classes in other departments. Regarding journalism school, my impression was that if I want to work at some local paper or something, I won't need a masters, but if I want to write for a good paper and get good stories I would need some sort of advanced degree. Even if it was maybe in something other than journalism. Wow...no English minor...anything in writing at all? A communications minor? I definitely think you're on the right track by taking as many writing intensive classes as possible (no matter what the subject). This is what I did in college, partly b/c I was a journalism major and partly b/c I knew it was pretty much a guaranteed 'A' for me without much effort if it involved writing and not lots of testing (unless, of course, the tests were essays ). As far as journalism school, most people who do it in undergrad go on to do other things for grad school (business and law are pretty common), but just about any major (with the right writing courses) can set you up for grad school in journalism. *sorry for the thread hijack

Just want to say I agree with all this stuff about journalism. If you already have a BA in journalism, the only reason to get a master's would be if you were planning to get a Ph.D and do media research or something.

Also, I don't think an English minor, or even English classes, are all that necessary for journalism. I minored in English, and I actually think it was less helpful, because the style of writing is so completely different. Journalism is 99% practical experience anyway -- you won't get that in any classroom.

As for you, Miss LMonet (in case you wanted another 2c...) - I don't think you should take this job, necessarily. I don't advocate working in the same company as your SO (speaking from experience here). However, maybe it's a sign that it's time to do something -- start volunteering, take some basic college classes or do an internship in the fields you're interested in, etc., now that you've had a good rest. If you're anything like me (remember, I get 2 months off every year), the time off eventually becomes counterproductive. (In fact, I think last summer is the last time I am going to do nothing, because I hate how unproductive I am!) Just my 2c.

bumblebee · Coach

just echoing halleybird and nyla--you really don't need a master's in journalism if you want to be a journalist (although, your degree will be in poli-sci, not journalism, i think people misinterpreted that).

i had considered (and still may someday) becoming a journalist--my degree is in english and communication studies--my school didn't have a journalism degree. a prof. of mine who is a really prominent political columnist told me that it's actually a better idea and shows more depth of knowledge to get a master's in something else (his was public policy) and then learn the ins and outs of the journalism business on the job. you can start out small, freelancing, whatever, just to get your foot in the door, but it helps you to get more interesting jobs and better pay if you have an expertise in something that you will be writing about. maybe yours might be international studies or something, maddie. sometimes i read your posts and wish that i could go back and start over at the point you are at!

kenzie · Chanel

bumblebee wrote:

just echoing halleybird and nyla--you really don't need a master's in journalism if you want to be a journalist (although, your degree will be in poli-sci, not journalism, i think people misinterpreted that).

No, I got it

...I was just letting her know that poli-sci is a fine major to go on for a master's in journalism.