STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

bumblebee · Coach

family drama, really long

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

That is totally unfair and anyone would be mad. I worked my way through college alone - my mom even stole from me durning that period. And now they do everything for my younger brothers and sisters. So I know how it feels.

I also know that it's absolutely not my problem. You mention over and over all the things you're doing to make the situation better. But it sounds like nothing is making a difference. If you're really honest with yourself, do you think there's actually anything you could do about this? And why, exactly, are you trying? To get them to do the right thing? To get them to listen to you? To get them to... fill in the blank. I think maybe none of your efforts have anything to do with you, and are all about getting someone else to do something so you'll feel bettter. And that isn't going to do anything but frustrate you. (It's like when your girlfriend dates a jerk, she won't believe you until she can see for herself. And might end the friendship if you try to make her see something she doesn't' want to. Your parents are the same).

I really hope this doesn't come off wrong. Because I really, truly know how it feels. It SUCKS. But you have to identify the exact reasons why it sucks. And recognize what you can do to make it suck less. Forcing your parents or your brother to do what you want will not help here. I think you'd feel better, and more in control of the situation, if you refuse to talk about your brother's finances with your parents. And if you absolutely refrain from commenting or tyring to play peacemaker when he acts like a jerk. Let them do what they're going to do. Let him be a greedy, lazy ass.

You've worked hard and paid your own way and chosen your own life. You have a lot to be proud of. Your parents and your brother are making a mistake. These two things are NOT related. Enjoy your success and let them be. You love them. They love you. They are making a mistake and you are not. You can't force people to do the right thing, unfortunately.

blubirde · Chanel

First of all, was it just your father who was being so unreasonable and mean to you on the phone? If so, maybe you can have an ally on your side - your mom. Second, you have to tell your dad that what he said bothers you and why. If they weren't coming to visit you in such a short time I'd say ignore him and let him come to you, but since they are, you really don't have a choice but to resolve the issues.

Your dad is being completely unreasonable in yelling at you and treating you badly. That said, it's obvious they don't want your opinion regarding their financial support of your brother. If that's the way they want it, it has to go both ways. If they don't want to here your opinion, they can't ask you for it.

Good luck. That sucks. I've been in a similar situation with my dad (him acting out defensively) and it hurt my feelings a lot. I hope you feel better.

travelgirl · Kate Spade

That is so frustrating! I realize that it is not always easy for parent's to divide everything, all time, up evenly between each child but this is not right. I think this happens often in families with the youngest for whatever reason. I truly feel that karma comes back around and hopefully all work itself out.

This happens with my husband's youngest brother and somehow he always comes out smelling like a rose but deep down I never feel like that child is ever happy (well he's not a child, he's almost 30!). At least you know do did everything on your own, the hard way and nobody can ever take that away from you. I hope none of my boys ever feel that way you are feeling-this isn't fair at all.

bumblebee · Coach

dizzy--what you are saying was actually my instinct during this unpleasant conversation, and it just kind of got derailed from there. i kept saying to him "you know, it's really none of my business, i don't want to talk about it anymore" and "please, i'd rather not be involved, it's not my business" etc. and he just kept on screaming.

intellectually, i do understand that it's not my problem and that there truly is nothing i can do about it. even if i could convince my dad that it's a terrible investment, he would never admit it, and i wouldn't get anywhere even if he did. he's going to do what he's going to do with his money, as he should, and it really isn't my business. now that he knows i disapprove of the transaction, too, if he lets me talk him out of it i really will be the bad guy and engender all kinds of resentment from all sides. i really do understand that and i'm trying to get over it. i just need time.

this is so dorky, but you and blubirde will know the answer--can i think of it as having lost a summary judgment? even if every single one of my points is correct, i still lose. that's what it means, right? somehow it makes it less personal if i think about it this way.

so my parents just called again, i think because my middle brother, who i am very close to, must have called and told them that they needed to talk to me about it. i told my dad i needed some space and wasn't ready to talk about it. when he scoffed at that, i said in a very respectful way that i was hurt and angry and needed some time to think about it because i don't want to talk before i am ready and say things that i don't want to say. i think i handled that pretty well, actually.

thanks for the advice--makes a lot of sense. i can be mad all i want, but it won't change anything. i really appreciate your responses.

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

I am the oldest daughter. I left home at 18, put myself thru school, paid for my wedding, bought my own home and used my own savings to start my business.

My middle sister had my parents pay for all 7 years of college (including expenses like insurance, cars and rent) and after graduation when she got a 100k a year job they bought her a house so she wouldnt have to "throw her money away" on rent and now she is getting married and they are paying for that as well. (at 50k!)

My baby sister is bascilly on the same path as my middle sister.

It can make me so very pissed and jealous and hurt and confused BUT I realized something profound last year. Everything I have done, accomplished is all on my own. and I am proud of that. My success belongs to me, because of my hard work.

Let it go, you cant change your parents or how they deciede to spend there money. You might not like how they spend it - but it is theres to spend. You will be a better woman for working hard and doing it alone.

lynnie · Chanel

i don't mean this to sound harsh because i'm the oldest myself, and i've had similar feelings. I was the responsible oldest one- the one that never considered freeloading off my parents due to respect, even though I am similarly lucky in the sense that I didn't have to pay my undergrad tuition. I had a credit card at 16 and have always worked super hard to save money, so i've always been good at it. My younger sister is not like this. She can't save money and to see her asking for my parents money pisses me off on so many levels. But I know, deep down, there was a part of me that WAS keeping score, that WAS, every once in a while, resentful. I don't want to be the "other" drain on the family- but why should i have to work so hard while my sister has to work so little? And to see me made out as the greedy selfish asshole was just salt in the wounds. That's how I used to think. But in the past few years, something happened and I don't care anymore. Also, my sister has grown up a lot and is a lot more reasonable. Think of it this way- parenting is tough. I don't know what i'd do in the same situation. It's a fine line, no one wants their kids to suffer financially, and consider it a compliment that they always knew you'd come out on top.

squishy · Coach

oh no... i feel your pain. i think it's common predicament for older (or at least more responsible... not necessarily saying those two go hand in hand) siblings.

in my case, my parents feel a nagging sense of responsibility for my younger brother. he's an irresponsible dickhead most of the time, and as much as they complain about him, they won't stop babying him. even at my expense. it's maddening, especially since when i need help, they're very very reluctant to bail me out. high expectations are a bitch. it almost makes me wish i had grown up as an underachiever.

almost.

that's the thing. i agree with the other girls... in the end, your parents aren't helping your brother out; he's always going to be their baby, while you are mature and independent. personally, the only way i can cope with this is believing that this is a very, very backhanded compliment.

please don't feel guilty... there's nothing remotely wrong about expressing legitimate feelings.

jacL · Coach

I think your father lashing out at you like that was very unreasonable, but are your parents better off financially now than before? Things have been similar in my family. My brother is 5 years older than me and had to pay for a lot of his things, even at a young age. When he turned 16 my mother matched whatever amount he had saved to help him buy a car. When I turned 16 she decided to go and buy me a brand-new car all by herself. I paid for clothing and entertainment by working since I was 15 but she (and my stepdad) paid for my rent and all living expenses throughout college. Now my little sister just turned 16 and my mom bought her a new car that cost almost twice as much as mine did and she doesn't have to work and when she goes to college, my mom and stepdad are going to buy a new house so she can live at home (her choice) and have a much shorter commute.

Every child has gotten it easier and easier in my family, but I feel that is only because my mom and stepdad have become better off financially over the years. I know they would have done for my brother what they did for me, etc. I don't know if that is the case in your family, but maybe it is something to think about.

bumblebee · Coach

JacL, i do hear what you are saying and you are right that they probably are financially better off now than they were when I was 25 (which was only 5 years ago) so maybe it's a little easier to give now. But it's not that big of a difference--not enough to make the disparity make sense.

They definitely had the money to help me when I needed it, but it was very much that they wouldn't, not that they couldn't. They had this big "tough love" campaign with me because they were so damn afraid that I was going to be this big freeloader and try to live off them, when I had never exhibited any evidence to support this. Still, they lectured me constantly about how the real world is hard and you have to save up and pay your bills and then you an go shopping if there's anything left over. Which is what I did, and on $23K a year while also trying to pay off credit card debt, there was no shopping. Which is fine, but apparently they've decided that my brother doesn't need to learn that lesson.

It just feels so arbitrary, which is what's maddening--they were such hardasses with me--like I remember going to Home Depot with them after I had moved into my first apt. and it needed a light fixture. We got to the checkout and my mom had this pained look of like "Can I please just take out my credit card? It's only fifty bucks!" but she didn't, and they made me pay for it myself. Fifty bucks was so much money to me then, and it was just abot the last $50 I had in my checking account and left me with about $20 until I got paid again a week later. But damn if they were going to let me mooch off them! They needed to save up $850K to buy a house for my brother and pay off his credit cards so he doesn't have to suffer like I did, since he's mommy's baby and we'd hate for him to have to actually work because maybe then he'd go back to treating my parents like shit and they absolutely can't have that.

NCshopper · Hermes

There's a lot I agree with that's already been said on the issue. I completely agree that you're better off for being independent and I think your feelings of resentment and jealousy are completely justified. I'd be pissed as hell too, but like the other girls have said, you have a LOT to be proud of.

With regards to your dad though, my hunch is that his yelling and ridiculous behavior towards you is out of guilt. Your family is clearly not a dumb group of people, so your dad I'm sure knows that he's making a bad investment. I'm sure he knows that he's spoiling your brother. And I'm sure he knows that your brother is taking advantage of the situation and treating them terribly. He gets it. And my guess is that he thinks there's nothing he can do about it because this relationship with your brother has been progressing like this for years and to fix this situation is going to be like turning the Titanic around, so he might as well continue to go along with it in order to placate (almost) everyone. So I'm guessing that when you tell him all of your feelings, which are 100% rational and justifiable, he's in such denial that he just doesn't want to deal with it. Does any of this ring true?

As for what to do about it, I'm not sure. If this "investment" will truly wipe out their savings and impact their quality of life, then you do need to speak up. Because their future is your future and if this impacts their ability to pay for their health care and living expenses down the road, then you're the one going to be bearing that load and you have every right to speak up. But, if they have enough to cover this and still be comfortable, then you probably need to just let it be. Their relationship with your brother is their own business and if they want to raise their son to be a coddled man with dependency issues, then so be it. Sucks, but honestly I think you came out on the better end of the deal.

-- Edited by NCshopper at 18:07, 2007-01-17

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

Dude, it must be deadbeat little brother week or something. My brother graduated from Berkeley last May but is currently mooching off my parents for gas money. And here's (imo) why: my parents have coddled him all these years, never let him get a job because it "would get in the way of his studies" and now they have raised someone who literally doesn't know how to work.

Anyway bumblebee, getting back to you, take pride in the fact that you are an independent person who can take care of herself. And pity your brother because he can't say the same. And deep down, he knows it, he knows he can't take care of himself, he knows he needs your parents and he hates them for it. That's probably why he's acting out at them too. Your brother's relationship with your parents is probably pretty dysfunctional what with the whole them trying to buy his love, him hating them for it but taking the money, him still being unhappy, them trying to buy his love some more cycle. Here's the thing though, that relationship will continue no matter what you do. So I heartily agree with Dizzy's suggestion that you remove yourself from the equation.

As for their relationship with you, try to find it in your heart to forgive them for all the times they witheld help because they were trying to "teach you a lesson." They made a mistake. They should've bought the damn light fixture. And maybe deep down they know that and are swinging in the opposite direction with your brother.

Sigh. Family dynamics, ya gotta love it, no?

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

n/m

-- Edited by scarlett at 22:17, 2007-04-16

cc · Marc Jacobs

It's good to see you posting again, even if it's due to unpleasant circumstances.

I hope it at least makes you feel better to know that you are not alone in facing this kind of situation. Like you and a lot of the other ladies here I have experienced the exact same thing. I had a HUGE blowup with my mom a few years ago over pretty much the issue you and your parents are arguing about. And my mom reacted the same way your dad did. Even though obviously my parents didn't change their behavior, my story does have a happy ending. About 2 years after this incident my mom told me that little by little she was going to try to give me the amount of money they spent supporting my sister so that eventually I can buy my own apartment. She never even brought up anything about our argument and trying to treat us fairly, she just said that she wanted to be able to help me because I'm such a good kid.

I wonder if down the road your parents will do the same thing. Or later, after this all blows over, if your parents might be receptive to you saying "listen, I'd really like to buy my own place and I was wondering if you guys could help me out a bit."

-- Edited by cc at 22:12, 2007-01-17

atlgirl · Gucci

I'm sorry things went so badly with your father. That's hurtful. But as distasteful as it is, these are your parents' choices. So they are fully entitled to make them, bad calls or not.

It's unfortunate that your brother doesn't appreciate what your parents have done for him...I agree that they are enabling him way too much, but again - your parents are choosing to do so, and your brother is choosing to be an ass about how he treats them, and also he is choosing to accept what they're offering. There's really not a lot you can do about it, unfortunately.

I agree that your father overreacted on the phone with you and that was uncalled for. And the follow-up phone call (with the scoffing) was also a little uncalled for...I think you are doing the right thing - distancing yourself, opting out of the situation, trying to calmly tell them you don't want to discuss it...it sounds like you are being way more adult than your parents (or at least, your father) here. Keep doing that and when they see that they can't bait you, they'll have nowhere to go with it and hopefully stop.

Good luck with the upcoming visit. When you have to interact with them, remember that you love them and know that you can be the bigger person about this. It might be an uncomfortable visit for you (I know how that is; we've had several of those with my family) but I know you can get through this.

bumblebee · Coach

Thanks everyone for your responses and personal experiences--it helps to know that I'm not the only one who has ever had this stuff come up. Im feeling better about it and ready to try and just let it go--there's nothing I can do about any of it, and the less I am involved, the better my relationship with my parents (and my brother) can remain. I've talked to my mom, who is a lot more reasonable and willing to listen, and I'm waiting for my dad to call me back. I am going to tell him how I feel about some of the personal attacks and ask him to try and keep that in check in the future, but beyond that, I'm just ready to make peace. Thanks again.