STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

kenzie · Chanel

Really upset, need to vent

NCshopper · Hermes

I'm sorry it's so stressful for you. That really sucks that they're treating you this way. By everything you've ever said, it totally sounds like the situation would be different if you were a man, which is really lame.

As someone who's recently gotten out of a job from hell and gone through an incredibly long and drawn out job search, I can totally relate. A bad job is just as demoralizing and emotionally draining as a bad relationship. And job hunting is really a roller coaster--I found myself feeling incredibly optimistic some times and incredibly down in the dumps at other times.

So anyway, I don't really have any great advice or pearls of wisdom. But the good thing is that you already have a job and it's much easier to look for a job when you have one already than if you don't. You've added so much to your resume at this job and I'm sure you've made some great contacts, so I know you're going to be fine. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

ITA w/ NCshopper. Best of luck with your search!

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

I am going to be brutally honest with you right now because I think you need to hear what I have to say. I know many people that are in Marketing/Advertising/Graphics/PR and they are all over worked and under paid. That is a choice that you have to make to be in a profession such as these. I have friends that have 10 years of experience in Marketing and they only make salaries in the mid 50's. That is with management responsibility and 80 hour a week jobs. They work their butts off and would like more money, but that is what the field pays. The fact that these people also work for top companies in major markets like NY, LA and Chicago just confirms that they are getting paid top market salaries for their field. The top salaries for their experience and positions, however, are not very great.

This may be the time for you to really evaluate the field that you are in and decide if this is what you want to do for the rest of your life. You are still young and you have your whole life ahead of you. That is what I had to do when I decided that I was getting out of HR. It was a difficult decision because I had invested so much time and effort in it, but I did it and I have never been happier. I know that the people I work for appreciate my work and that they are supportive of my goals to go back to school and get my Masters. Also, for what it is worth, I am an Assistant and I make the same salary that I did as an HR Manager with 4 direct reports. It isn't all about your title. I hope this helps. Best of luck to you.

lynnie · Chanel

As far as pay, i really have no condolences except maybe to consider switching fields. I agree w/farrah that some jobs are notoriously underpaid- in nyc, i see this for sure.

Are men at your company really making a lot more than women? Is this something that you can prove legally? Maybe there is some legal recourse here- i know that there is still a discrepancy btwn. men and womens salaries in this country, but I also see people suing people left and right...soo... I'm not suggesting it, but just wondering. If you really think that is the ONLY reason you don't make more, than maybe you can work that angle.

As far as extra help, do you think you can be given permission to take initiative to advertise for and hire some free interns? Sometimes people are willing to work for free for experience- maybe set something up through a local university? I know we have an abundance of interns and I get my own because of it.

Good luck- just remember that you are young and don't need to stay there! Maybe give yourself a 6 month plan of action to quit and find something else!

kenzie · Chanel

Farrah wrote:

I am going to be brutally honest with you right now because I think you need to hear what I have to say. I know many people that are in Marketing/Advertising/Graphics/PR and they are all over worked and under paid. That is a choice that you have to make to be in a profession such as these. I have friends that have 10 years of experience in Marketing and they only make salaries in the mid 50's. That is with management responsibility and 80 hour a week jobs. They work their butts off and would like more money, but that is what the field pays. The fact that these people also work for top companies in major markets like NY, LA and Chicago just confirms that they are getting paid top market salaries for their field. The top salaries for their experience and positions, however, are not very great.

I understand what you're saying, however, I've actually done a lot of my own research on this and have found that there are higher paying salaries. I, too, know people who work in the field and who work for other companies, both locally and in other areas and I know for a fact that I'm grossly underpaid. My company is notorious for underpaying everyone. This is a fact. In this area, I know I could and should be making more than I am. Even when I'm just looking at job listings and see the salaries, they are consistently higher than what I'm making and the jobs are much more streamlined.

I know that I'm always going to be overworked. I actually said that before. However, my issue with my current job is that it's just all over the place. It's not as if I'm doing only graphic design and corporate marketing. I'm doing web design, video production, functioning as a full ad agency for 40 clients, event planning and promotions for 4 locations and all of my own admin work. This is excessive, considering that there are jobs out there that are just graphic design, just web design, just event planning, etc, etc, etc and they pay more than I'm making right now.

lynnie, I've asked for free interns. They won't do that. They insist on paying their interns, so it's just another hassle for me. I find it amusing that a company that is so cheap with their employees salaries insists on paying interns. Ridiculous. I can't win.

And as for your question about men making more than women. Overall, yes, because they are allowed to work as much overtime as they want to, but my hours are capped regardless of how much work I have to do. There is no good reason for this that I can see, other than the fact that I'm a woman.

Even worse, when they were looking to hire someone for my position, apparently a man who worked at the company wanted to apply and was told he couldn't because it was a 'woman's job.' I know it's true because it came from a very reliable source at the company. WTF???

-- Edited by kenzie at 17:58, 2007-01-17

lynnie · Chanel

i wonder what would happen if you just stopped doing certain things, office space style. They must take you for granted since you work so hard- maybe take twice as long to finish something so they slowly start giving you more time to work on things. Since it seems like your job is very unique in the company, you're setting your own bar- maybe take it down a notch. they're not giving you shit- mentally quit.

-- Edited by lynnie at 19:41, 2007-01-17

kenzie · Chanel

lynnie wrote:

i wonder what would happen if you just stopped doing certain things, office space style. They must take you for granted since you work so hard- maybe take twice as long to finish something so they slowly start giving you more time to work on things. Since it seems like your job is very unique in the company, you're setting your own bar- maybe take it down a notch. they're not giving you shit- mentally quit.

-- Edited by lynnie at 19:41, 2007-01-17

Haha! This is was D suggested. Just not getting things done and my response when someone asks why should be, "I don't have time." I think I may employ this method. I see nothing else to do at this point while I'm looking for another job.

zeitgeist4 · Gucci

kenzie wrote:
Just not getting things done and my response when someone asks why should be, "I don't have time." I think I may employ this method. I see nothing else to do at this point while I'm looking for another job.

Sounds like a good plan to me!

jah · Dooney & Bourke

Just as a spot check, my company pays our marketing managers about 70K to start in areas of the company that are not compensated for cost of living. My marketing manager makes about 85K in San Diego, CA and doesn't have any direct reports. She also comes to work at 7 am and leaves no later than 4 every day and doesn't take work home. In fact, she has one of the easiest jobs in our company and is probably the only one on our floor who doesn't take work home or work greater than 60 hours per week (this is her own job assessment admission - not my opinion).

Our company has multiple marketing functions. We split the event planning, the product or vertical marketing manager positions and the corporate marketing functions. So the marketing manager for my product is only in charge of one vertical and just the product marketing for that vertical (about 10 or so products).

So, while marketing managers don't get paid nearly as much as software product managers (the job is not quite as stressful IMO as the product managers have P&L responsibility - ugh!), they do get paid well for the level of responsibility.

Maybe you can look for something in software as this seems quite consistent with all my previous companies and the experience of my friends in this area of business (friend in Nashville is a product marketing director and he makes $130K, a few other friends in San Diego make $75K - $120K).

HTH!

-- Edited by jah at 16:37, 2007-01-20

kenzie · Chanel

jah wrote:
Just as a spot check, my company pays our marketing managers about 70K to start in areas of the company that are not compensated for cost of living. My marketing manager makes about 85K in San Diego, CA and doesn't have any direct reports. She also comes to work at 7 am and leaves no later than 4 every day and doesn't take work home. In fact, she has one of the easiest jobs in our company and is probably the only one on our floor who doesn't take work home or work greater than 60 hours per week (this is her own job assessment admission - not my opinion).
Our company has multiple marketing functions. We split the event planning, the product or vertical marketing manager positions and the corporate marketing functions. So the marketing manager for my product is only in charge of one vertical and just the product marketing for that vertical (about 10 or so products).
So, while marketing managers don't get paid nearly as much as software product managers (the job is not quite as stressful IMO as the product managers have P&L responsibility - ugh!), they do get paid well for the level of responsibility.
Maybe you can look for something in software as this seems quite consistent with all my previous companies and the experience of my friends in this area of business (friend in Nashville is a product marketing director and he makes $130K, a few other friends in San Diego make $75K - $120K).
HTH!

-- Edited by jah at 16:37, 2007-01-20

Ugh! Those salaries nauseate me! I do all of that stuff all rolled into one position and then some (b/c I do a full-time load of graphic/web design) plus the total bullshit of being a one-person ad agency for our freaking customers. And I take work home on a regular basis. Obviously, I'm not getting paid that and actually, from my current company, I wouldn't expect that. I just want to be paid the in the lowest of the range that I should be paid in (based on my skills, experience, accomplishments and research) and I know that even that is a long-shot at my company.

But thanks for the info. I'll keep it in mind!

Suasoria · Chanel

I have to echo Jah. Marketing/PR/communications jobs can pay well and often do. As a PR agency employee, I've worked with in-house marketing directors who were complete morons making 80K and more when I did a good deal of their work for them.

I think Lynnie is 100% correct. Now is a perfect opportunity to just stop getting so much done. So long as you continue to work so hard for little pay and no support, AND get everything accomplished, exactly what incentive do they have to make a change?

I advise our support people to get into the habit of asking the managers here "So when do you really need this back?" That gives a clue that you're already overwhelmed with projects.

At least after a few weeks of less progress being made, someone should see the need to bring in temporary help or an intern.