STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

shopgirl · Kenneth Cole

hussein likely to be executed tonight (friday/saturday)

lynnie · Chanel

yea, i'm always conflicted by capital punishment. There is something nauseating (for me) about a govt ordering the death of a person, regardless of the crime. Not to say i'm totally opposed to it- it may be a necessary evil- i'm on the fence. If someone wanted to seek vengeance on him and shot him, i'd feel much more at ease- like it was the act of an individual and not people in a court of law deciding whether someone lives or dies. I think it also has to do w/the way he is being killed (hanging).

NCshopper · Hermes

shopgirl wrote:

Once he's dead, all the other cases against him will be wiped off the books; the genocide charges against him for killing thousands of kurds will be immediately dropped.

I feel really conflicted about this too. Aside from the fact that I'm anti-death penalty, what you wrote, shopgirl, is the main reason why I feel so conflicted. I'd be pissed beyond belief if it were my family members that were his victims and he never went to trial for the crimes against them.

I also can't help but think that the violence in Iraq is going to get worse because of this.

(Geez, aren't I the optimist? )

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

I think it is completly justified. This man is a modern day version of hitler. My husband and I have a friend who moved to NY NY a few years ago after her brother was kidnapped and killed by hussein's govt. Not to get all biblical here but - "an eye for an eye" , this man had thosands of people killed. Not just warfare killing (which on a battlefield is a completly different situation) but innocent civilians.

Jahni · Dooney & Bourke

AllieGurl wrote:

I think it is completly justified. This man is a modern day version of hitler. My husband and I have a friend who moved to NY NY a few years ago after her brother was kidnapped and killed by hussein's govt. Not to get all biblical here but - "an eye for an eye" , this man had thosands of people killed. Not just warfare killing (which on a battlefield is a completly different situation) but innocent civilians.

I completely agree. This is a man who viciously and violently tortured and murdered so many of his citizens. I will never forget my brother (who served a year in Iraq) telling us how completely THRILLED the Iraqi citizens were the day Sadaam was captured. He witnessed one of the many statutes of Sadaam being torn down and beaten with the heels of their shoes. He told us about the citizens that would come into their camps and make friends with the soldiers, how so many of them had horrible scars from where they were beaten and tortured by members of Sadaams regime and how there were so many little kids whose fathers were imprisioned or murdered.

I only hope that those who were waiting on Sadaam to be tried for the remainder of his crimes will find at least some peace in the fact that he has received the ultimate punishment and that he will no longer be able to order another death.

squishy · Coach

i dunno... i still can't help but feel that they're jumping the gun. i agree that he needs to be punished (perhaps with death, but i'd like someone to stomp on his testicles beforehand), but there are so many other of his crimes and injustices that haven't been accounted for. if the high-ranking nazis were executed before the nuremberg trials, there would be much we wouldn't know, and that part of our history would remain a question mark. it might seem redundant to bring these cases to trial, but it's important to do so... for the record and for closure.

VanGogh86 · Nine West

squishy wrote:

i dunno... i still can't help but feel that they're jumping the gun. i agree that he needs to be punished (perhaps with death, but i'd like someone to stomp on his testicles beforehand), but there are so many other of his crimes and injustices that haven't been accounted for. if the high-ranking nazis were executed before the nuremberg trials, there would be much we wouldn't know, and that part of our history would remain a question mark. it might seem redundant to bring these cases to trial, but it's important to do so... for the record and for closure.

in my worthless opinion, what the real issue is- is that the US is running the show, not the "government" in iraq. It is too soon, because they are not ready. It would have been a lot more symbolic when they don't have the US holding their hand and making decisions for them. The trial was a mess, everything about its been a mess.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I'm uncomfortable with the execution too. I don't think the point is "He's a bad guy..." It's pretty clear he is. I just don't see how killing him helps anything. A number of people who deserve it won't get to see him on trial. He'll be dead. We'll be the people who killed him. I don't see how that makes anything better.

I'd rather see him just sit in jail. A friend of mine writes this blog, and I think he got it right in the last paragraph, when he said that killing SH didn't change anything, but at least it's a good chance to mourn all Hussein's victims.

http://oldcowhand.blogspot.com/2006/12/politics-dictator-roundup_29.html

-- Edited by Dizzy at 23:59, 2006-12-29

ranchera20 · Marc Jacobs

Sorry if I sound dumb, but I had no idea the Iraquis were against Hussein. Did they realize all the bad he had done?

I dont know, I'm in between about this whole situation. It confuses me. I'm about 70% for the execution though. I also thought they had just said the other day they were going to execute him in 30 days? So now what? Are they going to just stop the war? As much as I wish for it to be over they cant say they were in war becuase of him right? So what are they still fighting for?

I dont know maybe I am just completely confused.

Hermes

ranchera20 wrote:

Sorry if I sound dumb, but I had no idea the Iraquis were against Hussein. Did they realize all the bad he had done?

I dont know, I'm in between about this whole situation. It confuses me. I'm about 70% for the execution though. I also thought they had just said the other day they were going to execute him in 30 days? So now what? Are they going to just stop the war? As much as I wish for it to be over they cant say they were in war becuase of him right? So what are they still fighting for?

I dont know maybe I am just completely confused.

I too find the notion of "war" confusing in regard to Iraq. As our purpose to be there is to help create order until the Iraqi government can take control of the people themselves. What they are using to measure when Iraq has control I have no idea.

Hussein's highlights in a nutshell (approx. dates):

1988 - rained poison gas on a Kurdish village killing approx. 5,000 of his own citizens whom he suspected of being disloyal and wounded approx. 10,000 more.

1990 - Iraq attacked the wealthy neighboring country of Kuwait - essentially pillaging the country during a six month period until the US stepped in with "Desert Storm."

When the US stepped in and Iraq retreated, Iraq set fire to all the oil fields in Kuwait in retaliation.

1993 - In further retaliation, Hussein attempts to have George Bush Sr. killed.

Between Desert Storm and the current war, Hussein killed thousands of Iraqis. The killings he was prosecuted for were a result of an Iraqi assassination attempt on Hussein in 1992. Hussein rounded up all the men in the town where the attempt took place, interrogated and tortured them, then killed them.

Also during this time, Hussein repeatedly threatened to attack neighboring countries with weapons of mass destruction (this is part of the reason we felt they had these weapons because they were threatening other countries with them.)

When Iraq was investigated for weapons of mass destruction, Hussein was not cooperative with the UN, further supporting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction to hide.

Many Iraqis suffered great loss and horror from Hussein's actions. He was an egotistical tyrant who ruled with fear.

Hussein was tried, convicted, and sentenced in an Iraqi court by Iraqi people. His execution is Iraqi law. You can argue the US played puppet master, but there's no denying that it was the Iraqi court that had Hussein put to death by hanging.

In my opinion, he's a freaking maniacal, sadistic nut with the desire and ability to do harm to others on a mass scale and the world is a better place without him.

luckylily · Gucci

Dizzy wrote:

I'm uncomfortable with the execution too. I don't think the point is "He's a bad guy..." It's pretty clear he is. I just don't see how killing him helps anything. A number of people who deserve it won't get to see him on trial. He'll be dead. We'll be the people who killed him. I don't see how that makes anything better.

ITA. Capital punishment makes me really uncomfortable even tho he's a crazy bastard who ruined the lives of so many innocent people.

squishy · Coach

VanGogh86 wrote:

in my worthless opinion, what the real issue is- is that the US is running the show, not the "government" in iraq. It is too soon, because they are not ready. It would have been a lot more symbolic when they don't have the US holding their hand and making decisions for them. The trial was a mess, everything about its been a mess.

i agree the trial was too soon. he could've been handled as a POW under the geneva convention, and iraq could've proceeded with the trial after the country reached some degree of stability (god knows when, though). i'm no apologist for the bush administration, and the november surprise verdict might seem fishy, but i was surprised at how transparent the trial was. ideally, it would've looked better had the US distanced itself further from the matter, but it was ultimately the iraqis who tried him and sentenced him to a death by hanging.

now that hussein's dead, he could be tried in absentia, but that's a different matter.