STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Collette · Chanel

Saddened and Disappointed over racist comment

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

Well there are alot of ignorant people in the world. If it comes up again I would be very blunt and say " Actually I dont like nor dislike people based on there race. Please dont make racist comments and the term "uppity" is very offensive, so please dont use that in my home again.

On a side note , yes I had some VERY rude comments from a customer the other day.
A painter came into my store and wanted to paint a santa claus on my front window. I nicely told him I wasnt interested. He got soooo combative and rude and asked why. When I told him that I have several employees of different faiths working for me and I felt it was disrespectful to only acknowledge the ones who celebrate christmas I choose to not put up any holiday themes out of respect for them. He then said "oh you have a bunch of jews here huh? I always feel sorry for them. " I was so shocked!!!! Anywho I told him he needed to leave my store immediatly - and he did.

People can be such assholes sometimes~!

Hermes

well, if you had kicked him out, what would it have accomplished? would you have changed his way of thinking? no. would you have delayed the work you're having done by having to find and hire another contractor? yes.

I asked my husband what he thought, and he thinks he would let him finish the job as his opinions have nothing to do with the work he's performing, then after the job is done, complain to his boss (if he's not an independent) about it so he doesn't make the same mistake again.

It was a really offensive opinion to share, but you're not going to change his opinion by firing him. The only thing it would change is him not saying it to a client again.

The other way to handle it is complain now and ask for another painter to perform the work if he is not an independent.

The guy is obviously ignorant, and I highly doubt anything will influence him to change his way of thinking or behavior.

-- Edited by D at 23:03, 2006-11-30

Hermes

AllieGurl wrote:

Well there are alot of ignorant people in the world. If it comes up again I would be very blunt and say " Actually I dont like nor dislike people based on there race. Please dont make racist comments and the term "uppity" is very offensive, so please dont use that in my home again.

On a side note , yes I had some VERY rude comments from a customer the other day.
A painter came into my store and wanted to paint a santa claus on my front window. I nicely told him I wasnt interested. He got soooo combative and rude and asked why. When I told him that I have several employees of different faiths working for me and I felt it was disrespectful to only acknowledge the ones who celebrate christmas I choose to not put up any holiday themes out of respect for them. He then said "oh you have a bunch of jews here huh? I always feel sorry for them. " I was so shocked!!!! Anywho I told him he needed to leave my store immediatly - and he did.

People can be such assholes sometimes~!

omg! what an ass!

Kelly · Hermes

I agree with D. I understand if you feel guilty for not saying something, but all it would do is create a hostile environment for the both of you for the next few days. And his (very ignorant and stupid) opinions don't change his job and his ability to do it. As far as your relationship is concerned, it only changes his professionalism.

But then again, I'm not a very confrontational person. I'm Catholic and I've heard more than my share of anti-Catholic comments, some very hateful. I usually keep my mouth shut even though it hurts. So...maybe I'm not the best person to ask. I don't even stick up for myself!

jessjoy · Kenneth Cole

I hate situations like these...I know if it was me, I probably wouldn't have said anyting and then stewed over it for the next few days thinking of the perfect thing i should have said.

he is obviously very ingnorant and unfortunately there probably isn't anything you can do or say to change that. however, if he was to say anything again, i would most definitely ask him to leave and tell his boss about his very unprofessional behavior.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I don't think you can change people's minds. And I don't think fighting ignorance with words works very well at all. They just get more entrenched.

I think what you CAN do is demonstrate what is and is NOT acceptable behavior around you. And in that case, I think a silent stare, long enough to make them feel UNCOMFORTABLE, then a pointed change of subject, with a frosty demeanor, does this best.

And I know what you mean about things being so weird even in this day and age (anyone remember a little rant by Michael Richardson?). A couple years ago, I walked into a home in INDIANA, owned by two thirty-something professionals, and they had a collection of BLACKFACE dolls. One had a noose around its neck "as a joke." The guy showed it to me. I looked at him for a mintue, horrified, and just not knowing what to do, turned around and walked away without saying anything. We never talked about it. He NEVER said anything racist around me again. (Obviously we weren't close friends. Just moved in the same circles and couldnt' avoid eachother). The funny thing is I think he really ended up liking me and being more receptive to the idea that that is NOT acceptable than if I'd argued with him. Or maybe I'm kidding myself and he made fun of me behind my back forever. But either way, he got the point.

Hermes

Dizzy wrote:

And I know what you mean about things being so weird even in this day and age (anyone remember a little rant by Michael Richardson?). A couple years ago, I walked into a home in INDIANA, owned by two thirty-something professionals, and they had a collection of BLACKFACE dolls. One had a noose around its neck "as a joke." The guy showed it to me. I looked at him for a mintue, horrified, and just not knowing what to do, turned around and walked away without saying anything. We never talked about it. He NEVER said anything racist around me again. (Obviously we weren't close friends. Just moved in the same circles and couldnt' avoid eachother). The funny thing is I think he really ended up liking me and being more receptive to the idea that that is NOT acceptable than if I'd argued with him. Or maybe I'm kidding myself and he made fun of me behind my back forever. But either way, he got the point.

Being a big collector, I know there are a lot of people who collect black memorabilia and it's not in a racist context. It's more that they're curious objects, sometimes folk art, that hold a certain charm about them. Those people I have known to own black memorabilia have never owned it out of mocking a race. It's also incredibly expensive stuff. As a matter of fact, the biggest collectors of black memorabilia are African American (black) people.

I was a the home of a family member of a large brewing company once. He took us to his attic where he had a nazi room. Clothing racks with nazi uniforms, cases with flat drawers displaying all kinds of nazi memorabilia, etc. I found this all horribly offensive, and I'm of Kraut descent.

atlgirl · Gucci

Collette, don't be too hard on yourself. Sometimes we're caught off guard and need a moment to recover. What I would do is use this experience to consider how you would handle that kind of statement the next time. Because, unfortunately, some type of comment like that will happen again...

IMO the 'uppity' comment alone is not necessarily racially motivated - he could have said that about anyone - white, black, asian, etc. But the "I'm not a fan of" comment is not appropriate and you certainly could let his superior know that you took issue with that comment. Unfortunately they're probably done with the job now (?) - it would have had more impact if you'd told them to stop painting and not come back...that would really have brought home the impact of his stupid comment. But you can still talk to his boss and make the boss/company aware of the situation.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

I agree, Collette, don't be too hard on yourself. I think most of us have a hard time knowing what to do or say right there in the moment and then spend days stewing over it in frustrated silence. You didn't do anything wrong. I think talking to his boss when the job is over is a good idea -- that way you don't have to risk him confronting you or even messing up the work. I hate to be a scaredy cat, but you don't know how he would react to you saying something to him directly. A woman here in NYC was just murdered by a handyman when she complained to him about how loud he was being.

In my experience I've generally seen "uppity" used in this context -- always about black people, not other races. (Gone With the Wind is a prime example of this.)

ayo · Coach

I wouldn't sweat it too much...because like many have said...

it's not like you are going to change he's mind about it and it really does not have anything to do with the work he's doing.

Unfortunately has an African-American...I'm reminded on a constant basis that racism is still alive and well. I don't think it is something that will ever necessarily dissapear, we live in an imperfect world and we all just have to get use to the fact that somethings are just always going to be. I'm have no delusions of a "we are the world" type society.

Dizzy- in your situation, I'm not so much offended by the fact that he collected blackface dolls (although I do have some issue with that) but the fact that he thought the noose around the neck was a "joke" is very upsetting.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

They weren't expensive "black memorabilia." They were cheap blackface porcelain figurine thingys that you can buy in gift shops. They said they started the collection because it was funny. And you saw the part about the ROPE, right? Not ok. Never ok. Made me sick.

Hermes

Dizzy wrote:

They weren't expensive "black memorabilia." They were cheap blackface porcelain figurine thingys that you can buy in gift shops. They said they started the collection because it was funny. And you saw the part about the ROPE, right? Not ok. Never ok. Made me sick.

a lot of black memorabilia crossed the line in its portrayal of african american people.

if it was new stuff that your friends fashioned with a noose, then that's just really disturbing. something like that would scare me away permanently. it's like having dismembered barbie dolls on display and thinking a mutilated woman is amusing.

-- Edited by D at 16:12, 2006-12-01

Hermes

ayo wrote:

I wouldn't sweat it too much...because like many have said...

it's not like you are going to change he's mind about it and it really does not have anything to do with the work he's doing.

Unfortunately has an African-American...I'm reminded on a constant basis that racism is still alive and well. I don't think it is something that will ever necessarily dissapear, we live in an imperfect world and we all just have to get use to the fact that somethings are just always going to be. I'm have no delusions of a "we are the world" type society.

Dizzy- in your situation, I'm not so much offended by the fact that he collected blackface dolls (although I do have some issue with that) but the fact that he thought the noose around the neck was a "joke" is very upsetting.

ayo - this all just breaks my heart for you and my other African American friends. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating it must feel.

tina242 · Kate Spade

Well "I'm not really a fan" of ignorant jerks.

I agree with everyone on a) don't be too hard on yourself and b) you probably won't change his mind - I've tried to change many minds and failed every time.

It's amazing how ignorant some people are. Be it racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc. DH and I are looking into Judaism and it amazes me how much anti-semitism is out there (and I just don't get it).

I really like Dizzy's idea and will have to try it: "I think what you CAN do is demonstrate what is and is NOT acceptable behavior around you. And in that case, I think a silent stare, long enough to make them feel UNCOMFORTABLE, then a pointed change of subject, with a frosty demeanor, does this best."

jacks435 · Kenneth Cole

I've been in this kind of situation, and it is so hard to handle, because often when you do decide to say something about how a certain comment/phrase was inappropriate, to an ignorant person, YOU end up looking like the one with the problem. I've reacted like that, saying, "That's really not appropriate," or "I'm offended by your comments," and the person who's made an offensive comment is always like, "God, don't make such a big deal out of it," or "it was just a joke," and then I end up feeling like the PC police or something. And I get even more frustrated because I realize that I haven't made any kind of difference to this person, and I've only made myself more upset.

I think it depends on the person's relationship to you. Like in Collette's case, as D said, she might as well have let him finish the job and complain later on. But if it were a friend, or a coworker, I think it's worthwhile to speak up right then and there so people know what is/isn't okay. Does that make sense?