STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

firefly · BCBG

Could this Anthro Dress be black tie?

Elle · Hermes

Well, I don't think you're going to get bounced at the door of the wedding for not wearing full-length! That dress is to. die. for. so I think you should get it and wear it anyway! I think it could be dressed up fairly easily, but it could also be dressed down for other occasions ..... but the is that it be appropriate for a wedding, which IMO this is.

Get it get it get it get it!

-- Edited by Elle at 12:19, 2006-09-08

tri_sarah_tops · Marc Jacobs

I don't think there's any way you can make it black tie appropriate. I think the material is the main problem, cotton is much too casual. But if you can find another way to justify the purchase, go for it. It's adorable!

member · Hermes

tri_sarah_tops wrote:

I don't think there's any way you can make it black tie appropriate. I think the material is the main problem, cotton is much too casual. But if you can find another way to justify the purchase, go for it. It's adorable!

I agree. When I think of black-tie, I think long dress. It's a beautiful dress, but the fact that it's cotton AND short, makes me say no.

firefly · BCBG

I think you might be right. Maybe if it were the height of summer I could get away with it, but cotton and short might just be too casual for an autumn black tie event...

Now I'll have to come up with ways to justify it for everyday use! :)

Elle · Hermes

Website says it's cotton organdy, and that the sash at the waist and the hem are silk.

Has anyone seen it in real life? Because IMO the silk trim makes it significantly less casual than if it was all cotton ...

firefly · BCBG

Ooh, thanks Elle. Good point! Maybe there's hope after all...

CheryleB · Kenneth Cole

The usual interpretation of black tie is floor length formal dress. I think the dress is beautiful but not "black tie". I see it as more of a cocktail or party dress.

If you can justify it, then I say buy probably not for black tie.

Kelly · Hermes

Everyone says that black tie means floor-length; I always thought it meant cocktail or floor length. I always thought that white tie was the only dress code that mandated a floor-length gown... therefore, my concern with the dress isn't the length, but the fact that it's made out of cotton. Also, the pattern doesn't seem very formal.

Chic · Marc Jacobs

I have been to a dozen "black tie" weddings and I have never seen anyone under the age of 40 in a floor length gown. Usually the only girls in floor length are the bridesmaids, so I think if you dress it up and maybe add some metallic accessories you would be fine.

cc · Marc Jacobs

ttara123 wrote:

Everyone says that black tie means floor-length; I always thought it meant cocktail or floor length. I always thought that white tie was the only dress code that mandated a floor-length gown... therefore, my concern with the dress isn't the length, but the fact that it's made out of cotton. Also, the pattern doesn't seem very formal.

I agree - black tie can be short or long, white tie means floor length. But I have the same concerns about the fabric and the pattern. In the picture of the dress on the model they show it worn over jeans which makes me think that it looks pretty casual in person, despite the silk trim. Maybe once you see it in person you can figure out if it will work with the right accessories.

-- Edited by cc at 17:56, 2006-09-08

Hermes

Chic wrote:

I have been to a dozen "black tie" weddings and I have never seen anyone under the age of 40 in a floor length gown. Usually the only girls in floor length are the bridesmaids, so I think if you dress it up and maybe add some metallic accessories you would be fine.

I have been to many black tie events and those who do not wear full length, regardless of age, look ignorant. I find it hard to believe this is exclusive to Michigan.

Traditionally, white tail means formal. Black tie means semi-formal. Formal means full length. These days, black tie tends to be interpreted as formal. Things are skewed these days as middle class younger people like to buck traditional etiquette.

If you take a look at pictures on style.com for black tie events, you'll find that all the young women wear full-length. Here is one of the premier black tie events of the year: http://www.style.com/peopleparties/parties/editorial/parties/data/043006.xml

Wear what you want, just be aware of how you might be perceived. If you don't care what people think (which doubt to be true, otherwise you wouldn't have posted), then wear whatever you want. Personally, if there was this much doubt over short or long, I would err toward traditional ettiquette.

ETA: I'm going to correct myself - some do have short dresses on (I still don't think it looks appropriate, even on Sienna Miller):

-- Edited by D at 18:42, 2006-09-08

Chic · Marc Jacobs

D wrote:

Chic wrote:

I have been to a dozen "black tie" weddings and I have never seen anyone under the age of 40 in a floor length gown. Usually the only girls in floor length are the bridesmaids, so I think if you dress it up and maybe add some metallic accessories you would be fine.

I have been to many black tie events and those who do not wear full length, regardless of age, look ignorant. I find it hard to believe this is exclusive to Michigan.

Traditionally, white tail means formal. Black tie means semi-formal. Formal means full length. These days, black tie tends to be interpreted as formal. Things are skewed these days as middle class younger people like to buck traditional etiquette.

If you take a look at pictures on style.com for black tie events, you'll find that all the young women wear full-length. Here is one of the premier black tie events of the year: http://www.style.com/peopleparties/parties/editorial/parties/data/043006.xml

Wear what you want, just be aware of how you might be perceived. If you don't care what people think (which doubt to be true, otherwise you wouldn't have posted), then wear whatever you want. Personally, if there was this much doubt over short or long, I would err toward traditional ettiquette.

-- Edited by D at 18:32, 2006-09-08

I was just giving my opinion in what I have seen for the past "black tie weddings" that I have been to. I think the dress is very pretty and in my opinion she can make it work. Was this really necessary?

CheryleB · Kenneth Cole

Here is what I have read in both style books and online with respect to the definitions:

White tie - Tuxes for men and long gowns with gloves for women

Black Tie - Tux or dark suit for men and long formal gown for women.

Gala - Same as Black tie

Black Tie Optional - Tux or suit for men and either long gown or cocktail dress for women.

I think it really does come down to what you are comfortable wearing. I am attending a ball tomorrow evening and the invitation card reads formal. I suspect that the majority of the women will be wearing long gowns. Personally I prefer to be a bit overdressed than underdressed but everyone has their own level of comfort. Wear what you are comfortable wearing and just have fun.

-- Edited by CheryleB at 19:08, 2006-09-08

jah · Dooney & Bourke

According to Emily Post... the queen of etiquette...

If you feel this dress falls into the category of "short, dressy cocktail dress" then it is fine for black tie.

White Tie is the only assessment that absolutely requires floor length. This is what I was thinking, but I went to the expert for verification prior to posting!

All Dressed Up

White Tie

MEN

Black tailcoat, matching trousers with a single stripe of satin or braid in the US; two stripes in Europe or the UK
white piqué wing-collared shirt with stiff front
white vest
white bow tie
white or gray gloves
black patent shoes and black dress socks

WOMEN

Formal (floor length) evening gown

Black Tie

MEN

Black tuxedo jacket and matching trousers
formal (piqué or pleated front) white shirt
black bow tie (silk, shiny satin or twill)
black cummerbund to match tie, or a vest
dressy suspenders to ensure a good fit (optional)
black patent shoes and black dress socks
no gloves.
In summer or on a cruise: white dinner jacket, black tuxedo trousers plus other black tie wardrobe.

WOMEN

Formal (floor length) evening gown or short, dressy cocktail dress

Black Tie
Optional

MEN

Either a tuxedo (see 'Black Tie' above) or
dark suit, white shirt and conservative tie

WOMEN

Formal (floor length) evening gown or
short, dressy cocktail dress or
dressy separates

Creative
Black Tie

MEN

Tuxedo combined with trendy or whimsical items, such as a black shirt or a matching colored or patterned bow tie and cummerbund
black shiny patent or dressy black leather shoes and black socks

WOMEN

Formal (floor length) evening gown or
short, dressy cocktail dress or
dressy separates or
any of the above accessorized with such items as a feather boa, colorful shawl or colorful jewelry

Semiformal

MEN

Dark, business suit (usually worsted wool)
matching vest (optional)
white shirt
conservative tie
dressy leather shoes and dress (dark) socks

WOMEN

Short afternoon or cocktail dress or
long dressy skirt and top

-- Edited by jah at 00:35, 2006-09-09

tina242 · Kate Spade

Chic wrote:

I have been to a dozen "black tie" weddings and I have never seen anyone under the age of 40 in a floor length gown. Usually the only girls in floor length are the bridesmaids, so I think if you dress it up and maybe add some metallic accessories you would be fine.

I agree with Chic.

Knotties seem to suggest that if it's evening you should probably wear a long dress. Daytime is more flexible...what time of day is it?

-- Edited by tina242 at 20:32, 2006-09-08

cc · Marc Jacobs

firefly, may I ask a bold question? Is this a middle class affair? I think the reason that we find ourselves in disagreement is because some of us follow the traditional guideline of white tie meaning formal/floor length gowns and black tie meaning semi-formal. Personally, I live on the Upper East Side and simply don't run in the same circles as these young middle class people and Midwesterners who are bucking tradition by debasing the traditional dress codes. In my experience black tie requires a cocktail dress OR a long dress. If a lady wishes to require that her female guests wear long gowns she should write "full dress" or "white tie" or some other variation on the invitations. Furthermore, in my opinion it is ladies who think that black tie demands long gowns who are ignorant and not the ones who wear shorter dresses to black tie events.

Hermes

cc wrote:

firefly, may I ask a bold question? Is this a middle class affair? I think the reason that we find ourselves in disagreement is because some of us follow the traditional guideline of white tie meaning formal/floor length gowns and black tie meaning semi-formal. Personally, I live on the Upper East Side and simply don't run in the same circles as these young middle class people and Midwesterners who are bucking tradition by debasing the traditional dress codes. In my experience black tie requires a cocktail dress OR a long dress. If a lady wishes to require that her female guests wear long gowns she should write "full dress" or "white tie" or some other variation on the invitations. Furthermore, in my opinion it is ladies who think that black tie demands long gowns who are ignorant and not the ones who wear shorter dresses to black tie events.

thank you, cc. do you feel better now?

cc · Marc Jacobs

D wrote:

thank you, cc. do you feel better now?

Oh yes, I just get so agitated when people don't understand these rules.

littlebean · Kate Spade

CheryleB wrote:

Here is what I have read in both style books and online with respect to the definitions:

White tie - Tuxes for men and long gowns with gloves for women

Black Tie - Tux or dark suit for men and long formal gown for women.

Gala - Same as Black tie

Black Tie Optional - Tux or suit for men and either long gown or cocktail dress for women.

I think it really does come down to what you are comfortable wearing. I am attending a ball tomorrow evening and the invitation card reads formal. I suspect that the majority of the women will be wearing long gowns. Personally I prefer to be a bit overdressed than underdressed but everyone has their own level of comfort. Wear what you are comfortable wearing and just have fun.

-- Edited by CheryleB at 19:08, 2006-09-08

I agree!