STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

RE: HPV vaccine

blubirde · Chanel

sephorablue wrote:

blubirde wrote:

A little off topic but here in Texas the governor just made an executive order that every girl entering 6th grade had to get the HPV vaccine. There are, of course, exceptions if it's against religion, etc., but I all in all, I think it's a great, progressive move by a guy who is best buds with W.

I actually heard that the governor happens to have a good friend who is a lobbyist for the drug company that makes the vaccine. Sigh. Still, my friends and I agreed, even if it's not for purely altruistic reasons it's still a HUGE step in the right direction!

That's true, but considering his biggest base is the religious right, I don't think that was his motivation. Either way I agree, it's a good step.

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

I have really liked reading through this information.

This vaccine does not apply to me, since both me and my DH entered our relationship as our only sexual partners, however I have younger sisters and neices who this vaccine will effect.

I feel a little on the fence with this one -

on one hand I think young men and women should be educated about what HPV is and how to prevent contracting it. Obviously a vaccine to prevent HPV is going to protect alot of women.

On the other hand, I almost feel that young people are not getting enough accurate information about HPV and may look at this vaccine as a green light to be sexualy active and possibly not use protection. That really worries me.

Also as elle said, I dont like that it is being touted also as a vaccine for cervical cancer. That is not what it is.

squishy · Coach

i'm probably going to go off-tangent here. let that be your warning.

i really can't stand how science is marketed (shudder) and portrayed as sound bytes in the media. examples: "studies have shown that coffee is good for you!" or "coffee can KILL YOU! more, tonight, at 11!" there were some scientists that published that coffee contained antioxidants, which may or may not be enough to even make a dent in your health. and then there was another study that showed that a small population with a genetic polymorphism also appeared to have a slower caffeine metabolic pathway, which may slightly increase your susceptibility to myocardial infarctions. and it may also increase your risk of getting humped by a blind rhinoceros. all you can really say at this point is that coffee and caffeine may or may not have an effect on you, and researchers don't fricking know.

this hpv-vaccine-will-prevent-cervical-cancer bullshit is just another example. it can be spinned (spun?) in a positive light: since more people will fall for this marketing tactic, more people will ask questions and get the vaccine. but to portray this as a vaccine for cervical cancer is just plain irresponsible. i'm sure the people who spent their careers developing the vaccine are livid.

relrel · Marc Jacobs

squishy wrote:

i'm probably going to go off-tangent here. let that be your warning.

i really can't stand how science is marketed (shudder) and portrayed as sound bytes in the media. examples: "studies have shown that coffee is good for you!" or "coffee can KILL YOU! more, tonight, at 11!" there were some scientists that published that coffee contained antioxidants, which may or may not be enough to even make a dent in your health. and then there was another study that showed that a small population with a genetic polymorphism also appeared to have a slower caffeine metabolic pathway, which may slightly increase your susceptibility to myocardial infarctions. and it may also increase your risk of getting humped by a blind rhinoceros. all you can really say at this point is that coffee and caffeine may or may not have an effect on you, and researchers don't fricking know.

this hpv-vaccine-will-prevent-cervical-cancer bullshit is just another example. it can be spinned (spun?) in a positive light: since more people will fall for this marketing tactic, more people will ask questions and get the vaccine. but to portray this as a vaccine for cervical cancer is just plain irresponsible. i'm sure the people who spent their careers developing the vaccine are livid.

Ditto, ditto, ditto to everything you said. Those stupid commercials make me violent. Also, I'm really scared that the whole idea of preventive medicine will fly out the window with THE CURE FOR CERVICAL CANCER being shoved down our throats. Dude, you still need to go to the doctor and get your pap every year...just cause you get a vaccine against four out of 80-some strains of a STD doesn't mean that you are safe and healthy.

However, I also can't stand the religous rights instistence that the HPV vaccine will make sluts out of all the 12-year olds in this country.

blubirde · Chanel

AllieGurl wrote:

On the other hand, I almost feel that young people are not getting enough accurate information about HPV and may look at this vaccine as a green light to be sexualy active and possibly not use protection. That really worries me.

But really - what kid out there decides to use a condom and/or not have sex because of HPV? It seems the prevailing concerns in having unprotected sex would be AIDS/HIV and unwanted pregnancy. It would be really hard for me to imagine a person going ahead with sexual activity and/or having unprotected sex because they got the HPV vaccine. It doesn't make very much sense to me.

However I do agree that young people (and people in general) are not getting enough accurate information about HPV, STDs, and sex in general. I'm all about opening up sex ed in schools. Give us the info, people! At least then we can make an informed decision.

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

blubirde wrote:

AllieGurl wrote:

On the other hand, I almost feel that young people are not getting enough accurate information about HPV and may look at this vaccine as a green light to be sexualy active and possibly not use protection. That really worries me.

But really - what kid out there decides to use a condom and/or not have sex because of HPV? It seems the prevailing concerns in having unprotected sex would be AIDS/HIV and unwanted pregnancy. It would be really hard for me to imagine a person going ahead with sexual activity and/or having unprotected sex because they got the HPV vaccine. It doesn't make very much sense to me.

What I am trying to say is that because so many kids are so uneducated on sex, alot of them may not realize the difference between this vaccine preventing HPV or HIV or any other STD for that matter. Unfortunatly kids are having sex at really young ages now. Because of this they dont always get the accurate information they need to protect themselves, or they may not be old enough to really understand the difference. When I talked about it with me 11 year old niece, she was totally confused.

I really feel schools (and parents) need to really start educating kids at young ages on all the sides of sex, absitence and prevention of STD's and pregnancy. Having some sex ed class with 8th grades that basicly covers sperm, periods and babies is not helping these kids. We need to be talking to 6th graders and really spelling out what every decision and choice can mean and how it can affect you.

Ok rant over :)

blubirde · Chanel

AllieGurl wrote:

I really feel schools (and parents) need to really start educating kids at young ages on all the sides of sex, absitence and prevention of STD's and pregnancy. Having some sex ed class with 8th grades that basicly covers sperm, periods and babies is not helping these kids. We need to be talking to 6th graders and really spelling out what every decision and choice can mean and how it can affect you.
Ok rant over :)

I totally agree with this point. It wasn't until college I even knew there were STDs other than HIV, and I took the health class and listened to the "you can get AIDS from kissing" speakers they had in high school just like everyone else. I don't think I was an idiot (at least not more so than anyone else), and I don't think I was alone. More education is definitely key, especially with so many homes preaching abstinence only. It's an option but when it's all you talk about, you don't learn the information that you need to know to make an informed decision about sexual activity if you decide to have it.

sydney · Kate Spade

This drug HAS been proven in clinical trials to be 100 percent effective against the 4 common strains of HPV which cause cervical cancer - which is almost unheard of in clinical trials.

It's other benefit is that it prevents common std's (which are the leading cause of this cancer.) Social ramifications aside, it's the world's first cancer vaccine, which is pretty amazing.

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

sydney wrote:

This drug HAS been proven in clinical trials to be 100 percent effective against the 4 common strains of HPV which cause cervical cancer - which is almost unheard of in clinical trials.

It's other benefit is that it prevents common std's (which are the leading cause of this cancer.) Social ramifications aside, it's the world's first cancer vaccine, which is pretty amazing.

Talked to my SIL who works in the medical field and she confirmed this information. Really an amazing thing!

relrel · Marc Jacobs

sydney wrote:

This drug HAS been proven in clinical trials to be 100 percent effective against the 4 common strains of HPV which cause cervical cancer - which is almost unheard of in clinical trials.

It's other benefit is that it prevents common std's (which are the leading cause of this cancer.) Social ramifications aside, it's the world's first cancer vaccine, which is pretty amazing.

Okay, I had to speak up here. The HPV vaccine is not a cancer vaccine. There is no such thing as a cancer vaccine. The HPV vaccine has been shown to prevent 100% of high-grade cervical pre-cancerous lesions and non-invasive cervical cancers which were associated with HPV. Here's the clincher though- only 70% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV- therefore 30% of the cancers will not be affected at all by the vaccine. Cervical cancer will continue to be something that women will have to deal with, perhaps not as much...but it will still be something that all women need to be screened for at thier annual visits. It's important to remember that there are 80-some strains of HPV, any of which have the potential to cause genital warts or cancerous lesions. Most are completely asymptomatic and "harmless", but 4 out of 80 doesn't make me feel completely safe and protected.

It's maybe just semantics but here's the way it should be looked at: HPV is a virus that in some cases can cause mutations of cervical cells, sometimes these mutations become cancerous (i.e. spreading and growing out of control) and then sometimes these couple of cells grow into masses that infect other cells which is then the actual cancer. The vaccine prevents the virus from originally gaining a hold in the body, just like any other vaccine...by stimulating the immune system response. If the virus never takes hold in the body, then cancer can never have a chance...therefore, it isn't a cancer vaccine but a viral vaccine-- just like all the other vaccines out there. It's impossible to stop cancerous cells from mutating and spreading (excepting chemo and radiation) but it's very possible to stop viruses.

I'm sorry to be so pedantic here, I just feel that it's important to really understand what's being shown on TV. Sometimes, even doctors don't really understand what's going on. They have drug reps just telling them what they think the doc needs to hear to order thier drugs.

-- Edited by relrel at 21:04, 2007-02-12

squishy · Coach

relrel wrote:
Okay, I had to speak up here. The HPV vaccine is not a cancer vaccine. There is no such thing as a cancer vaccine. The HPV vaccine has been shown to prevent 100% of high-grade cervical pre-cancerous lesions and non-invasive cervical cancers which were associated with HPV. Here's the clincher though- only 70% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV- therefore 30% of the cancers will not be affected at all by the vaccine. Cervical cancer will continue to be something that women will have to deal with, perhaps not as much...but it will still be something that all women need to be screened for at thier annual visits. It's important to remember that there are 80-some strains of HPV, any of which have the potential to cause genital warts or cancerous lesions. Most are completely asymptomatic and "harmless", but 4 out of 80 doesn't make me feel completely safe and protected.

It's maybe just semantics but here's the way it should be looked at: HPV is a virus that in some cases can cause mutations of cervical cells, sometimes these mutations become cancerous (i.e. spreading and growing out of control) and then sometimes these couple of cells grow into masses that infect other cells which is then the actual cancer. The vaccine prevents the virus from originally gaining a hold in the body, just like any other vaccine...by stimulating the immune system response. If the virus never takes hold in the body, then cancer can never have a chance...therefore, it isn't a cancer vaccine but a viral vaccine-- just like all the other vaccines out there. It's impossible to stop cancerous cells from mutating and spreading (excepting chemo and radiation) but it's very possible to stop viruses.

I'm sorry to be so pedantic here, I just feel that it's important to really understand what's being shown on TV. Sometimes, even doctors don't really understand what's going on. They have drug reps just telling them what they think the doc needs to hear to order thier drugs.

-- Edited by relrel at 21:04, 2007-02-12

we're venturing into murky, semantic territory, but i have to say that it's a very important distinction that has to be made. the word vaccine implies that if i get this shot, i'm not going to get cervical cancer. that's what a measles/mumps/rubella vaccine does, right? based on how this vaccine is being advertised (despite how absurd it sounds to us), a lot of people are going to believe so.

there's a correlation between HPV and cervical cancer, but by no means is it absolutely causative. and like relrel said, the vaccine only protects against 4 out of 80 strains, a number which is bound to grow since viruses are resilient, adaptive motherf*ckers.

what people don't realize is that everyone harbors dozens, if not hundreds, of mutations in their DNA. most are benign, but every now and then, a critical protein is truncated, cells don't know 'how' to die, and your body goes haywire. personally, the fact that a virus can transform cells into cancerous ones is terrifying.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

this has been a really interesting thread to read. i just wanted to add a few things: first, i had HPV myself, and my doctor told me that wearing a condom doesn't necessarily prevent you from getting it. so that fact alone makes this vaccine a good thing, in my opinion, besides the other benefits. and two, according to a recent article in newsweek (the one with the cover story about "girls gone wild"), things are actually getting better as far as teens and sex are concerned:

"Statistical evidence indicates that our girls are actually doing pretty well, in spite of Paris Hilton and those like her: teen pregnancy, drinking and drug use are all down, and there is no evidence that girls are having intercourse at a younger age."

and

"Sex surveys are notoriously unreliable, but the best available data show that the average age of first sexual intercourse for girls is 17, according to the Guttmacher Institute, and hasn't changed by more than a few months in 20 years. The overall teenage pregnancy rate in 2002, the most recent available, was down 35 percent from 1990, according to the Centers for Disease Control. And while celebrity idols stumble in and out of rehab, the rates of drinking, smoking and overall drug use among teenage girls have declined in recent years, says the Institute for Social Research at the University of Michigan."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16961761/site/newsweek/

i don't think this vaccine is going to encourage teens to think they can have sex without consequences. maybe i just had really good sex ed in school, but i remember learning about other STDs when i was in middle school and feeling pretty freaked out about siphilis, for instance.

jacL · Coach

scarlett wrote:

i don't think this vaccine is going to encourage teens to think they can have sex without consequences. maybe i just had really good sex ed in school, but i remember learning about other STDs when i was in middle school and feeling pretty freaked out about siphilis, for instance.

I was also well-informed in school about sex (good thing too, because my mother didn't tell me anything) so I am with you on this one. I guess what people like us should remember is that not everyone had a good sex-ed program in school (especially now with abstinence-only funding--grrr) and there are still adults out there who are completely clueless about sexual health.

I agree 100% that people need to be well-informed and too many people will see this vaccine as an absolute prevention to cervical cancer. However, this vaccine is a wonderful thing--with widespread use, the incidence of cervical cancer could be drastically slashed.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

jacL wrote:

scarlett wrote:

i don't think this vaccine is going to encourage teens to think they can have sex without consequences. maybe i just had really good sex ed in school, but i remember learning about other STDs when i was in middle school and feeling pretty freaked out about siphilis, for instance.

I was also well-informed in school about sex (good thing too, because my mother didn't tell me anything) so I am with you on this one. I guess what people like us should remember is that not everyone had a good sex-ed program in school (especially now with abstinence-only funding--grrr) and there are still adults out there who are completely clueless about sexual health.

I agree 100% that people need to be well-informed and too many people will see this vaccine as an absolute prevention to cervical cancer. However, this vaccine is a wonderful thing--with widespread use, the incidence of cervical cancer could be drastically slashed.

well said -- i completely agree.

halah · Kenneth Cole

I really feel like when I was in school although I learned about most STDs including genital warts I never really understood that it was caused by HPV and how easy it is to catch even when your partner does wear a condom, and that there were so many different strains. There still seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about HPV.

I was talking about this with some girls in my brunch group (after plenty of mimosas). Is it right that there is no test a guy can take that will tell him if he has an HPV and with women you can only test through a pap smear?

I look at the vaccine the same way I look at not smoking, and staying out of the sun it's not going to 100% protect me from cancer but it certainly helps to reduce some of the risk factors.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

according to my doctor, yes, there's no way to test a guy for HPV and the pap smear is the only way we can get tested. sucks!

relrel · Marc Jacobs

halah wrote:
I was talking about this with some girls in my brunch group (after plenty of mimosas). Is it right that there is no test a guy can take that will tell him if he has an HPV and with women you can only test through a pap smear?

There actually is a test that looks for HPV DNA which for some reason only seems to be recommended for women. The DNA test is only to be used to test definitively for HPV after a woman has an abnormal PAP smear. The assumption is that the HPV DNA test should work on men as well but it hasn't been approved by the FDA. What appears to happen, politically and medically, is that it's just easier to test for HPV in women because for some odd reason women are just much more sensitive to the virus which means that its easier to find in thier blood. The DNA test is also super expensive so standard practice is recommending annual PAP smears (much cheaper) and then maybe HPV DNA tests.

Kelly · Hermes

Okay. I did not know that about guys not having a reliable test. Which scares me - my ex (the only guy I've had sex with other than my current BF) went to get tested for STDs at my request when we were together. He said that they tested for everything and everything came back negative. I assumed that meant HPV, too. Now I'm scared!

Does anyone know how long it takes from the infection for it to show up on your pap? We broke up about a year ago, and I have my annual gyno appt in July. If I was infected February at the latest, would it have shown up on my pap last year?

Aurora · Marc Jacobs

Just wanted to bump up. I went to my new ob/gyn 2 days ago for my annual checkup and we talked about this vaccine. Her impression is that anyone who wants it should get it esp if insurance covers it. She also thought that within the next 10 years they will be expanding the age groups and giving it to boys. She is a residency teacher at Baylor College of Medicine and stays pretty well informed with what is going on it the medical industry so I thought her opinions were interesting on the topic.

I decided for me personally to go ahead with the shot before I went to meet her and my insurance covers it 100%. I got shot one on Tuesday, shot 2 will be in May and shot 3 in Sept.