STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

Presidential Address on Immigration

blubirde · Chanel

luckyclover wrote:

but that if you want to be a citizen you must be able to speak English.

This is bullshit, imo. Who says?

blink · Coach

The interesting thing to me is that it seems (correct me if I am wrong) that the only immigrants who actually have expectations that legal documents, schooling, permits, etc. are available in their native language are the recently immigrated Hispanics (My husband is a 3rd Generation Mexican-American and even his family feels that everyone expecting to be a citizen in the US should speak English). So is this expecation from today's Mexican immigrants because their population is now so high here so that they feel they have the political capital to expect it?

As for a law stating they must speak English...I am not sure that's neccessary, it sounds more like a politician trying to kind of pick a fight like it's us Americans against them, the Spanish speaking immigrants.

asf · Kate Spade

i agree with blubirde - who says an american citizen has to speak english? we pride ourselves on being so accepting and this cultural melting pot, talk about honoring diversity and the great things that make us different, but then try to change one of the fundamentals of any given culture - its language? makes no sense to me.

although i must say, this is the first "speech" i've seen bush give where i actually could listen without wincing over his horrible delivery/reading capabilities. he must've practiced a lot.

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

asf wrote:

he must've practiced a lot.

This may be...I'm not him so really I don't know. I do know that he was governor in Texas and has a ranch there. One of the first things he did when he became president was beef up the border patrol and start building fences. This was nothing new....just something that got focused on recently. I have heard/read lots of things about how the public has stated he needs to be concerned with terrorists (not necessarily mexicans) sneaking in through the Mexican border just for the simple fact that it is not guarded as heavily since we are friends with Mexico. They also said that about the canadian border but I don't know if they've done anything about that yet since I don't live up that way.

I live close to the Mexico region and have quite a few friends who are mexican. I go there every chance I get (at least 2 times a year and would go more if I lived closer). My mother was a spanish teacher and I can speak a little myself. No one is saying that you can't speak spanish on a regular basis or whatever your native language is for that matter. All they are saying is if you come to the USA (not talking about just visiting but but as a citizen) where our chosen language is English, you should be able to speak/understand it...even if it's just roughly. There are many places that have signs etc in both languages (especially down south here) but there are many that don't. I think if I was going to live in Mexico as a citizen I would beef up on my Spanish. Some of the places I've been there don't have english/spanish signs and if I hadn't been taken around by my mexican friends, I would have been lost.

btw these are not new requirements or anything. The requirements are for all immigrants. This is what the site you can apply for citizenship on says about it.... and at the end I put the link for anyone who wants to read all of the requirements.

E.
Ability to Read, Write and Speak English

You must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. You may claim exempt from this requirement if, on the date of filing:

1.
You have been residing in the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident for 15 years or more, and are over 55 years of age

2.
You have been residing in the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident for 20 years or more, and are over 50 years of age, or

3.
You have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects your ability to learn English

http://usimmigration.visapro.com/USA-Citizenship-Services.asp

relrel · Marc Jacobs

on the topic of fences...just something to throw out there:
fences do TWO things, not only do they work (not very well, mind you) to keep undocumented immigrants out of this country, but they also keep people INSIDE the american borders. this, in essence, is actually one of the main reasons why the numbers of undocumented immigrants has skyrocketed in recent years. for an undocumented immigrant, once you pay your couple of thousand dollars to some shady guy to transport you across the border, do you really think that you're ever ever gonna go home again and risk getting caught by the border patrol? in the past, a large majority of undocumented workers would return to mexico periodically (and sometimes for good) at the end of the growing season or to visit family or for whatever reason. this doesn't happen anymore, you can get caught trying to cross the border either way, why take that risk? fences aren't necessarily going to solve the problem of undocumented workers (or terroism for that matter). they are simply windowdressing on a much larger problem.

and (deep breath) on the topic of language requirements:
this is just bullshit, imo. do you know how many natural born americans can't speak, read, or write english?? a freaking lot. im not talking about getting by and having the ability to read the sign on the wall that says "next door on your left for such and such", but the ability to comprehend health issues. this is actually a huge concern for me (and im really sorry this is so off topic of spanish and english but im all riled up now and just gonna go for it), that a large number of americans do not understand basic health directions, like "take twice daily with food". ive recently been conducting surveys at a local health center and a really scary amount of people ive approached haven't been able to really read and comprehend what the survey is asking of them. simple questions like how many medications they are on and how much money they cost...nothing very complicated. but god, it breaks my heart to have to read a three page survey to a 55 year old man because he can't read. sooo, sorry to ramble a bit there, but imho, i don't think that you can pass a national language law without first ensuring that all your citizens have the proper education so that they can read and write.

rant over.

relrel · Marc Jacobs

luckyclover wrote:

The main emphasis of the speech (anyone who watched it already knows this) was not to discourage immigrants (from any place) but to encourage them to follow the lawful procedure that has been put into place.-- Edited by luckyclover at 21:48, 2006-05-22

okay...one more little point, sorry. encourage them to follow the lawful procedure? what? and put themselves on a list so that in 10-15 years they can finally come to this country? do you really think that the millions of undocumented immigrants want to be here illegally? i don't know...i heard that hiding from the police and being afraid to take your child to the hospital and constantly wondering when you are going to be found out is kinda cool...

"the lawful procedure" is the problem...not the immigrants.

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

relrel wrote:

this is actually a huge concern for me (and im really sorry this is so off topic of spanish and english but im all riled up now and just gonna go for it), that a large number of americans do not understand basic health directions, like "take twice daily with food". ive recently been conducting surveys at a local health center and a really scary amount of people ive approached haven't been able to really read and comprehend what the survey is asking of them. simple questions like how many medications they are on and how much money they cost...nothing very complicated.

I agree. I've always wondered why it is that teachers are paid so little. I worked for a convience store and several teachers worked there because they could make more money. How sad is it that someone who sells us a bag of chips can make more than someone who is teaching people to read, write, count, basic math and lots of other things that we need to know to survive. I also worked with some people on the other end...that couldn't add or subract. How do these people survive? They don't even know when they are being ripped off.

I've seen a Tylenol commercial lately that they state how important it is to not take more than the dosage on the package. They even state "if it means selling less Tylenol. That's ok with us." Finally someone who cares more about people than money.(or at least they make it look that way) I liked the way they put that on the commercial. What a good way to help educate people who may not know any better.

I agree 10-15 years is way too long to wait for citizenship. According to the site, it's 5 years before you can apply (unless I'm understanding it wrong or there is another waiting period after you apply) Anyway maybe with the issue getting publicity more people will push to change it.