STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

kenzie · Chanel

RE: Is this weird?

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

NylaBelle wrote:

What I don't understand is why all the other women in the office think it's so great (yeah, he's been doing it for years). My whole issue was the PC thing, too. I just simply cannot wrap my head around the mentality that so many people in this area have. It's just shocking. So unbelievably shocking. -- Edited by NylaBelle at 21:32, 2006-04-29

Yeah, that's the scary part - I once complained about a boss who, seriously, masturbated himself with my chair, and another woman who in private had complained about this boss a LOT told everyone that I was "asking for it" I think because of my short skirts and general sassy attitude. Of course, that makes PERFECT sense. Actually, I found out later that the guy had SIX complaints in his file (and for crying out loud he only supervised 14 people or so!)

Trust me, though, it really sucks if you tap into the cultural, societally imposed depths of self-loathing that make these women feel like the REAL problem is the one who complains about the situation. There's a LOT of anger there, and I think they sort of figure they can curry favor with the men, who they see in some sort of Stockholm jailor sort of benevolent caregiver role (sick and sad, i know), by turning on the woman who says "this is NOT ok." It's really weird.

kenzie · Chanel

Dizzy wrote:

Trust me, though, it really sucks if you tap into the cultural, societally imposed depths of self-loathing that make these women feel like the REAL problem is the one who complains about the situation. There's a LOT of anger there, and I think they sort of figure they can curry favor with the men, who they see in some sort of Stockholm jailor sort of benevolent caregiver role (sick and sad, i know), by turning on the woman who says "this is NOT ok." It's really weird.

Oh, I definitely got some dirty looks from a few people when I questioned the whole flower thing. And I wasn't being obnoxious about it, either. I simply said, 'I don't get why all the women in the office get flowers for Secretaries Day. Why are all women secretaries and why are all secretaries supposed to be women?' I was just told to be nice. Ack! So weird.

kenzie · Chanel

shopchicago33 wrote:

I didn't mean to strike up controversy between you, Nyla and Hermoine - I was just looking for a perspective on the blue collar comments and wasn't assuming anyone thought blue collar men were stupid - I was just trying to understand where everyone was coming from that. Sorry if I caused controversy btwn the two of you.

No worries, shopchicago33. It's just difficult, I think, to explain what it's like in this area and in my company, so I think that's why there's a lack of understanding. I wouldn't understand it either if I hadn't experienced it first hand.

Marg · Kenneth Cole

Here's my take... I would no doubt be weirded out a bit too but I've learned to take the 'water off a duck's back' approach.

I am an upper level manager a small company. Our company owners bring things on Secty. Day (or whatever the hay Hallmark has renamed it) and include me as well as all of my staff (all of whom are more administrative/accounting staff, not secretaries).

Since it usually involves pretty flowers and a REALLY nice lunch at the country club, we just all look at is at a perk. They are very clear that we are in no way secretaries in their minds, but that they just want to say thanks for all the things we do that are above and beyond.

I don't spend any more time worrying about it. I figure if they want to bring prizes/do nice things I'll just smile and go with the flow.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

NylaBelle wrote:

I simply said, 'I don't get why all the women in the office get flowers for Secretaries Day. Why are all women secretaries and why are all secretaries supposed to be women?' I was just told to be nice. Ack! So weird.

They said to BE NICE? Oh wow. Yep. Clearly you're some sort of big city fancypants (along with that "urban" manager who hired you) who just doesn't understand the need to go along/get along. Heehee. I hate this stuff so much. If no one ever says anything, then it never changes. But the one who says something gets SQUASHED and ostracized and court claims take forever and get you blackballed and it's such a bad situation all around - have you ever seen North Country with Charlize Theron? It was pretty good. Rent it and maybe it will give you a place to vent a little bit.

Maat · Kenneth Cole

I never have liked that holiday, especially when I was an assistant. I found it kind of demeaning. I can't really explain why except that if you are an assistant looking to break into the field as opposed to a career assistant, it focuses on the one aspect of your position that you DON'T want highlighted. I also really hated getting stuff like mugs that said "Best Administrative Assistant," especially since I was trying so hard to move forward in my career and be recognized for the other projects I worked on, not my administrative duties. A

nyway, it doesn't sound like he thinks you are a secretary. He has introduced you as the Marketing Coordinator. I'm thinking that either

(a) He thought you would feel left out and unappreciated if everyone else got flowers and you didn't.

(b) He, as an outside salesman, considers everyone that works in the office as part of the administrative staff. When you don't report to the office, it is easy to think of everyone there as people whose job it is to support and help you.

You are not the only person this happened to. I was at my old job at a car dealership getting my car serviced and saw that the owner had gotten one of the female service advisors flowers that said Happy Administrative Professionals Day. I wondered to myself why he did that and if she was insulted or happy.

I know it's frustrating, but don't worry too much about it. Nobody who has seen your work thinks you are an assistant even if some flowers say you are.

-- Edited by Maat at 15:31, 2006-04-30

NCshopper · Hermes

The more I think about it, the more I feel like this really isn't a big deal at all. It's kinda like when a man opens the door for a woman. Yeah, I can open a door for myself, but it's nice when someone is considerate and opens the door for me. I do consider myself a feminist, but I'm not about to go all ape-shit on a guy because he did something that he considers to be nice and thoughtful. I'd much rather be gracious and just say "thank you."

You can't control other people's actions, but you can control your reaction. You can choose to be offended, or you can choose to enjoy some pretty flowers at your desk.

lynnie · Chanel

Maybe he was just joking around with the "to a great secretary" part or something. If he doesn't introduce you as a secretary, it sounds like he has your position straight. Maybe he is just old fashioned and wanted a reason to buy you flowers too.

-- Edited by lynnie at 16:21, 2006-04-30

Kelly · Hermes

NylaBelle wrote:

Dizzy wrote:
Trust me, though, it really sucks if you tap into the cultural, societally imposed depths of self-loathing that make these women feel like the REAL problem is the one who complains about the situation. There's a LOT of anger there, and I think they sort of figure they can curry favor with the men, who they see in some sort of Stockholm jailor sort of benevolent caregiver role (sick and sad, i know), by turning on the woman who says "this is NOT ok." It's really weird.
Oh, I definitely got some dirty looks from a few people when I questioned the whole flower thing. And I wasn't being obnoxious about it, either. I simply said, 'I don't get why all the women in the office get flowers for Secretaries Day. Why are all women secretaries and why are all secretaries supposed to be women?' I was just told to be nice. Ack! So weird.

Maybe the women who are secretaries resented the fact that you resented being grouped with them? Maybe that's why they looked at you funny - perhaps you unwittingly hurt their feelings.

I agree that maybe he thought you would feel left out and unappreciated if you were one of the few ladies who didn't get flowers. He may have upset you by getting you flowers, but he might have just gotten them to avoid upsetting you for another reason.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

I think getting you and all the other women in your office flowers on Secretary's Day is totally shocking, but hilarious! I mean, how clueless is this guy? You can't really be angry, since he was trying to be nice, but I do think it's annoying to have this happen to you in the year 2006, for sure! It just shows a total lack of regard for the positions women hold in the office - there is nothing wrong with being a secretary or admin asst., but to not differentiate between people's jobs and just assume all the women are secretaries is a total faux paux on his part. He would never do that to the men in the office. If he didn't want you to feel excluded, he should have bought you flowers with a different message, like, "to a great client" or something like that. So weird. Why should you "be nice" and just "be grateful to get flowers"? Not saying you should be a jerk and yell at him, but I don't see anything wrong with gently and nicely raising the issue when you see him, i.e. "thanks for the flowers, what a nice gesture! but I don't feel like I deserved them as I'm not one of the hard-working and deserving admin assistants at this company. Next time feel free to ask me who is in admin here, I'll help you pick out the flowers!" or something like that.

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

Nyla - I think it should be VERY obvious to you why I willingly travel 45 minutes each way to WC/Downingtown every day.. I need to stay close to my "city/suburban" lifestyle.. :)

kenzie · Chanel

JoceyBaby23 wrote:

Nyla - I think it should be VERY obvious to you why I willingly travel 45 minutes each way to WC/Downingtown every day.. I need to stay close to my "city/suburban" lifestyle.. :)

HA! Living and working here is soooo ainful. I'm locked in to a year lease, but after that, I feel the need to move back to West Chester. I'm so homesick every single day. WC felt more like home than this place ever could!

I'm so glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks this is totally odd.

wildflower930 · BCBG

If this happened to me I'd be thankful that someone took time out of their day and money out of their wallet to buy me flowers. There is so much negativity already in the world, getting flowers shouldn't be one of them. :)

-- Edited by wildflower930 at 21:16, 2006-05-01

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

Nyla, if you feel comfortable posting it, where in central PA do you live? In your post about sexual harassment at work I mentioned that I grew up in York, south-central PA, and I know exactly what you're talking about when you describe the attitudes and work environment! If you'd rather not say where you live, no worries.

kenzie · Chanel

wildflower930 wrote:

If this happened to me I'd be thankful that someone took time out of their day and money out of their wallet to buy me flowers. There is so much negativity already in the world, getting flowers shouldn't be one of them. :)-- Edited by wildflower930 at 21:16, 2006-05-01

I agree, flowers in and of themselves aren't negative. However, it was the message with the flowers and the context in which they were sent that threw me off.

scarlett, you have pm.

blink · Coach

Ahh, you can roll your eyes a little, but let it slide. It's very simple: sales people (women too) ALWAYS seem to consider the back-office, from marketing to billing to IT to everything in between, to be administrative, ESPECIALLY if you are female, regardless of your title....if you work with one to help them resolve an issue or make that sale in any way, you are part of the team, so that may be why this guy decided to take secretary's day and just reward all the back office girls, as in a more modern sense, you all work well with him and he appreciates it. Or maybe he just doesn't get it, either way, it was a way to let y'all know he is thankful for whatever job you do.

It was this way in my corporate office when I worked as an account manager in telecom in 2000, even though many of the executives, directors and sales managers were women. Some of the less informed sales people DID expect certain administrative tasks to be done by us, unfortunately. It doesn't sound like this sales guy is like that, but if you run into one, just grit your teeth and keep working, you are young and you'll move up quicker than someone else who might consider themselves "above" administrative duties or association with it.

While I do relate to feeling like you do, and I think it is totally natural that you are taken aback by it, you should also consider the other side, that it sounds to have been a very kind gesture, even if he might have missed the point of what secretary's/admin. asst day really is.

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

wildflower930 wrote:

If this happened to me I'd be thankful that someone took time out of their day and money out of their wallet to buy me flowers. There is so much negativity already in the world, getting flowers shouldn't be one of them. :)-- Edited by wildflower930 at 21:16, 2006-05-01

I agree....I've worked for a lot of people/places that don't give a crap about you. Obviously the guy knows your not a secretary. That being said, I think it's kind of refreshing for someone to do something nice for someone else especially when he's not someone you see all the time- he's only there a couple of times a week.

I may be wrong but there's not too many specific holidays... secretaries day and boss's day. Maybe secretary day just happens to be the day he decided to just tell you all that he appreciates you? What would happen if he had picked boss's day instead? Maybe it would have been better for him to pick a plain old day? I think we are all just so used to negative things that when anyone does anything nice, we question it. It's just human nature I suppose.

nunzi182 · Kate Spade

luckyclover wrote:

wildflower930 wrote:
If this happened to me I'd be thankful that someone took time out of their day and money out of their wallet to buy me flowers. There is so much negativity already in the world, getting flowers shouldn't be one of them. :)-- Edited by wildflower930 at 21:16, 2006-05-01

I agree....I've worked for a lot of people/places that don't give a crap about you. Obviously the guy knows your not a secretary. That being said, I think it's kind of refreshing for someone to do something nice for someone else especially when he's not someone you see all the time- he's only there a couple of times a week.
.

I agree with both wildflower930 and luckyclover. As an administrative assistant myself, I find the whole situation a little embarrassing, but I am grateful for the flowers. There were a few women here who are non-administrative assistants that were complaining they didn't get flowers and they wanted to be included in the holiday. I think it just depends on the person.

beachgirl · Kenneth Cole

wildflower930 wrote:

If this happened to me I'd be thankful that someone took time out of their day and money out of their wallet to buy me flowers. There is so much negativity already in the world, getting flowers shouldn't be one of them. :)-- Edited by wildflower930 at 21:16, 2006-05-01

I agree with this. I think it's a really nice gesture and I would take it at face value and not read into it. I'm all for women's rights and PC behavior, but not at the expense of acts of kindness where people are so worried about offending someone they'll just stop bothering to do anything at all. The only time I don't love getting flowers is when my bf sends them to my work after messing up big time, then I have to explain why I'm not thrilled to get them =o)