STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

kenzie · Chanel

Is this weird?

Hermione · Kate Spade

considering how understanding you are about all the sexually harassing comments you get at work, i'm surprised you're not more understanding about this guy who you know is just trying to be nice ---

try to look at it the same way you do with the guys that make comments on your looks, etc... it's a blue collar environment - they just don't get it!

NCshopper · Hermes

Wow, that is pretty weird. I'd be slightly offended too, but on the other hand, he got everyone flowers, so it's kinda hard to be mad about that. I don't really know what I would do if I were put in that situation. I don't think I'd say anything to the guy. Or maybe you could say (either in person or via email) something along the lines of "Thanks for the flowers. You really went out of your way, especially since I'm not an admin assistant." Then at least he knows that you're not.

Drew · Gucci

NCshopper wrote:

Wow, that is pretty weird. I'd be slightly offended too, but on the other hand, he got everyone flowers, so it's kinda hard to be mad about that. I don't really know what I would do if I were put in that situation. I don't think I'd say anything to the guy. Or maybe you could say (either in person or via email) something along the lines of "Thanks for the flowers. You really went out of your way, especially since I'm not an admin assistant." Then at least he knows that you're not.

I like NCshoppers idea about thanking him with the line to remind/let him know your not a secretary.

I always like to think of people intentions when they say things. He intended to do a good deed so take it for what it's worth (and I know you already are :) ).

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

NCshopper wrote:

Wow, that is pretty weird. I'd be slightly offended too, but on the other hand, he got everyone flowers, so it's kinda hard to be mad about that. I don't really know what I would do if I were put in that situation. I don't think I'd say anything to the guy. Or maybe you could say (either in person or via email) something along the lines of "Thanks for the flowers. You really went out of your way, especially since I'm not an admin assistant." Then at least he knows that you're not.

I agree. I would be offended if it was just me but since he got everyone flowers it's obvious he was just making a jesture to let you all know that you are appreciated. I think if I said anything it would be the above mentioned. If you say it any other way it could come across very wrong and cause him to not do anything nice for anyone there for awhile.

kenzie · Chanel

NCshopper wrote:

Wow, that is pretty weird. I'd be slightly offended too, but on the other hand, he got everyone flowers, so it's kinda hard to be mad about that. I don't really know what I would do if I were put in that situation. I don't think I'd say anything to the guy. Or maybe you could say (either in person or via email) something along the lines of "Thanks for the flowers. You really went out of your way, especially since I'm not an admin assistant." Then at least he knows that you're not.

Actually, I already did this. I gave him a handwritten thank-you note the following day and stuck it in his mailbox. He hasn't been back in the office yet to get it, though, since he only stops in once or twice a week.

kenzie · Chanel

Hermione wrote:

considering how understanding you are about all the sexually harassing comments you get at work, i'm surprised you're not more understanding about this guy who you know is just trying to be nice ---

It's actually mostly clients that do this, by the way, not co-workers.

Cortney1982 · Chanel

You said he only stops in once or twice a week. My take is that he does not know what your positions are. Maybe he is a little old-fashioned minded that if a woman is in a professional setting it is because they are the secretaries. I wouldn't say anything other than thank you for the flowers to not hurt his feelings since he was so thoughtful about getting them for everyone.

-- Edited by Cortney1982 at 17:03, 2006-04-29

Lilykind · Hermes

I think it's the weirdest thing ever, but then I've always worked in departments where the heads are female. I'm no longer an admin assistant/secretary either and I would've been totally bothered just like you were if I saw the flowers on my desk.

That said, he sounds well intentioned, so I'd let it roll off. If he's not in the office every day, he may now know everyone that well and chances are he was just trying to be nice.

member · Hermes

Hermione wrote:

--- try to look at it the same way you do with the guys that make comments on your looks, etc... it's a blue collar environment - they just don't get it!

I don't get this statement - are blue collar guys stupid? I take offense to that considering my father worked a "blue collar" type job his whole life and isn't what I'd consider stupid in the least...I know plenty of stupid white collar men and plenty of white collar men that make comments on girls looks as well - I don't see what that has to do w/anything.

As for the flowers - I'm an admin asst, so I may be looking at this from a different light, but I think it was just a nice gesture and he probably just didn't know your job title. I wouldn't take offense since he didn't single you out, but gave them to all the women in your dept. I know you worked really hard to get where you are in your career and that's great, but being an Admin Asst myself, I don't think it's a horrible thing if someone mistakes you for one. Maybe I'm just being sensitive.

kenzie · Chanel

Let me clarify...He absolutely knows my job title. I work very closely with him (and the other salespeople) on advertising campaigns and marketing proposals for our clients. He isn't confused about my job title or my job function. Whenever he introduces me to a client, he calls me the Marketing Coordinator.

I actually have a really good working relationship with him and as I said, I'm not offended. I was just a little shocked b/c I didn't think people still thought that way. He's really a very nice person, but just waaaaay old-fashioned (and not in a sexist/pigheaded kind of way). I just found the whole thing odd. That's all.

Hermione · Kate Spade

shopchicago33 wrote:

Hermione wrote: --- try to look at it the same way you do with the guys that make comments on your looks, etc... it's a blue collar environment - they just don't get it! I don't get this statement - are blue collar guys stupid?

actually shop chicago, i completely agree with you about the whole thing - i'm just referring to an earlier conversation in dating with nyla where she accepted the sexual harassment she regularly received. she said:

"I get hit on at work every. single. day. And not just by co-workers, by clients as well. The industry I work in is absolutely male dominated and the field part of it is blue collar. Even though I'm in an office with a white collar job (and white collar co-workers), many of the guys I work with used to work in blue collar and that just carries over. "

and also

"I'm the youngest girl by 15 years there and like I said, it's extremely blue collar. Ironically, the co-worker that I dated/have been hanging out with doesn't say anything the least bit inappropriate. Never has, never will. This stuff comes mostly from the older men (40ish and up) and from clients. Actually, none of the guys who are my age ever act inappropriate. Yeah, it's a ridiculous amount of attention, but I'm used to it now since it's been going on since day one. And like I said, it's kind of the nature of the industry (think construction workers). "

shopchicago, personally i am mystified at this p.o.v., b/c i am with you, but my point in this particular post was that b/c nyla seems to be accepting of it due to this reasoning, that she might cut this guy a break b/c she knows he's trying to be nice.

member · Hermes

NylaBelle wrote:

Let me clarify...He absolutely knows my job title. I work very closely with him (and the other salespeople) on advertising campaigns and marketing proposals for our clients. He isn't confused about my job title or my job function. Whenever he introduces me to a client, he calls me the Marketing Coordinator. I actually have a really good working relationship with him and as I said, I'm not offended. I was just a little shocked b/c I didn't think people still thought that way. He's really a very nice person, but just waaaaay old-fashioned (and not in a sexist/pigheaded kind of way). I just found the whole thing odd. That's all.

In that case, I think he's super old-fashioned and probably a tad sexist in his thinking..it was a nice gesture, but he obviously has that old-fashioned way of thinking. I've got a few old timers in my dept that still think that way too - it's a little shocking, but they still exist!

member · Hermes

Hermione wrote:

shopchicago33 wrote: Hermione wrote: --- try to look at it the same way you do with the guys that make comments on your looks, etc... it's a blue collar environment - they just don't get it! I don't get this statement - are blue collar guys stupid? actually shop chicago, i completely agree with you about the whole thing - i'm just referring to an earlier conversation in dating with nyla where she accepted the sexual harassment she regularly received. she said: "I get hit on at work every. single. day. And not just by co-workers, by clients as well. The industry I work in is absolutely male dominated and the field part of it is blue collar. Even though I'm in an office with a white collar job (and white collar co-workers), many of the guys I work with used to work in blue collar and that just carries over. " and also "I'm the youngest girl by 15 years there and like I said, it's extremely blue collar. Ironically, the co-worker that I dated/have been hanging out with doesn't say anything the least bit inappropriate. Never has, never will. This stuff comes mostly from the older men (40ish and up) and from clients. Actually, none of the guys who are my age ever act inappropriate. Yeah, it's a ridiculous amount of attention, but I'm used to it now since it's been going on since day one. And like I said, it's kind of the nature of the industry (think construction workers). " shopchicago, personally i am mystified at this p.o.v., b/c i am with you, but my point in this particular post was that b/c nyla seems to be accepting of it due to this reasoning, that she might cut this guy a break b/c she knows he's trying to be nice.

Gotcha - thanks for clarifying sweetie

kenzie · Chanel

Hermione wrote:

shopchicago33 wrote: Hermione wrote: --- try to look at it the same way you do with the guys that make comments on your looks, etc... it's a blue collar environment - they just don't get it! I don't get this statement - are blue collar guys stupid? actually shop chicago, i completely agree with you about the whole thing - i'm just referring to an earlier conversation in dating with nyla where she accepted the sexual harassment she regularly received. she said: "I get hit on at work every. single. day. And not just by co-workers, by clients as well. The industry I work in is absolutely male dominated and the field part of it is blue collar. Even though I'm in an office with a white collar job (and white collar co-workers), many of the guys I work with used to work in blue collar and that just carries over. " and also "I'm the youngest girl by 15 years there and like I said, it's extremely blue collar. Ironically, the co-worker that I dated/have been hanging out with doesn't say anything the least bit inappropriate. Never has, never will. This stuff comes mostly from the older men (40ish and up) and from clients. Actually, none of the guys who are my age ever act inappropriate. Yeah, it's a ridiculous amount of attention, but I'm used to it now since it's been going on since day one. And like I said, it's kind of the nature of the industry (think construction workers). " shopchicago, personally i am mystified at this p.o.v., b/c i am with you, but my point in this particular post was that b/c nyla seems to be accepting of it due to this reasoning, that she might cut this guy a break b/c she knows he's trying to be nice.

Actually, I'm pretty offended (no, I'm mad) at the way you are misconstruing what I've said, Hermoine. I do not by any stretch think that these people are stupid. I've never said that. But let's be honest, how many of us have walked by construction sites and been whistled at, etc versus walking into an office building.

Obviously, not all men in blue collar industries are like this. I've even said that most of the men I work with aren't like this. Many times it's clients that behave this way. Good lord, I've dated several 'blue collar' men and I don't date people who can't hold an intellectual conversation with me. My dad has worked in a blue collar industry all his life and he has a MENSA card!!! Good grief. Blue collar doesn't mean stupid.

I do not live or work in a major city. It's been major culture shock for me to be working in this kind of an environment, but there is no way that I 'accept' sexual harrassment. I have said before that anything that is really out of hand is reported. However, I'm not going to spend my entire day worrying about it.

I never, ever, ever said (or even inferred) that blue collar means stupid. That's ridiculous. And I said that this particular salesman is a little more simple-minded (not stupid) and old-fashioned. Please get your facts straight before you accuse me of an attitude that I don't have.

-- Edited by NylaBelle at 21:15, 2006-04-29

Hermione · Kate Spade

nyla, i never said you thought they were stupid! i said that you seemed accepting of their behavior due to your statements in previous posts - i don't think i said anything but that - you were accepting of their behavior, i didn't understand your reasoning, but there it is.

i by no means implied that you said they are stupid or simple-minded - i didn't even use those words or anything like them...

Hermione · Kate Spade

wait - i'm sorry, i did say that you accepted that behavior - where apparently i misunderstood what you were saying.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Oh my god! Wow - he seriously bought flowers for every woman on the floor for secretary's day? The card obviously was just what went with every one, right? I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him, but is there any way to get the hint across, anonymously or through channels, that it's not exactly PC to assume every woman in the company is a damn secretary? This is soooooo funny (I know you're offended, but there is a funny side, right?) He's probably been doing this for years, right? And the other women act like it's great? Then you definitely don't want to complain because they won't support you and management would be able to say "see, none of the other women are offended so what's wrong with you..." Sorry, this one is pretty shocking - I'd be weirded out too!!!

-- Edited by Dizzy at 21:25, 2006-04-29

kenzie · Chanel

Hermione wrote:

nyla, i never said you thought they were stupid! i said that you seemed accepting of their behavior due to your statements in previous posts - i don't think i said anything but that - you were accepting of their behavior, i didn't understand your reasoning, but there it is. i by no means implied that you said they are stupid or simple-minded - i didn't even use those words or anything like them...

My reasoning simply is this--- It's not worth it for me to cry sexual harrassment for every client who bugs me or looks at me crooked. If I feel uncomfortable around a client, I don't have to work with them (that's straight from my boss).

And I've only had one major incident at work since I started with a co-worker and I told him that he better leave me alone and stop asking me out every five minutes or I was going to report him to my boss (which I did anyway, just for the record, but I didn't want my boss to say anything to him). I've had one other issue where someone kept asking me to go to dinner and play pool and I diffused that one as well. I've also refused to go out on the road with The Company Drunk b/c he makes innappropriate comments (not to mention he's drunk all the time).

There really isn't much more that I can do. I can't waste my time worrying about every single comment that's made. And for that matter, the comments aren't disrespectful or degrading in their tone and I get plenty of comments about my intelligence and creativity, so I know that these people know I'm not some idiot.

I'm not really sure why you are so mystified except for the fact that you aren't in my situation. I'm completely surprised by the way things are here as well, but I have a job to do and I can't waste my time crying about harrassment.

member · Hermes

I didn't mean to strike up controversy between you, Nyla and Hermoine - I was just looking for a perspective on the blue collar comments and wasn't assuming anyone thought blue collar men were stupid - I was just trying to understand where everyone was coming from that. Sorry if I caused controversy btwn the two of you.