STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Irene · Dooney & Bourke

NO NO NO NO NO!!!

erin · Chanel

i'm sorry if this may affect your vacation, but i am so sick of these huge corporations asking their employees to take huge paycuts while still paying ceos and executives so highly.

maybe if they didn't have fucking 300 million dollar salaries, this wouldn't be an issue.

viva la strike!

/end rant!

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

Oh no Irene!!! I really hope you don't get stuck in the middle of this.

My dad was a Union Business Agent (represented workers) for 9 years... I usually side with the union. However, I trully believe that this was a bad idea on the union's part. The airline industry is not good right now. If I were the company- I would fire everyone on strike- there are plenty of laid off pilots and stewards looking for jobs- for less money. The fact is, this could fold Delta. (Oddly enough, a similar situation to this is, in fact, a major cause in how my father lost his job.)

Erin- I do agree with you though- if the execs didn't have the ridiculous salaries, they probably wouldn't be in trouble... but i guess as my boss always says, S*#t flows downhill. If all pilots and stewards in all airlines got together and refused these pay cuts is the only way that this would work. But I suspect people will trade sides when out of work.

fyi. That was the business side of me, not the moral and sympathetic side talking.

Irene · Dooney & Bourke

Regarding exec salaries:

You have to remember, the number of executives at a company is usually less than 10. In comparison, when you have thousands of employees, lowering the salaries of the execs is not going to make a dent in the financial situation of any company. It's the masses that have the power of financial stability of the company (wage wise), not the executives.

Maat · Kenneth Cole

Irene wrote:

Regarding exec salaries: You have to remember, the number of executives at a company is usually less than 10. In comparison, when you have thousands of employees, lowering the salaries of the execs is not going to make a dent in the financial situation of any company. It's the masses that have the power of financial stability of the company (wage wise), not the executives.

You're right, but if I were asked to take a 32.5% paycut, I wouldn't see that clearly. I would just be like, "Strike? Where do I sign up?" Gosh...this all really sucks. It's not like they can raise prices to save the business. Prices for flights are through the roof. I just bought a ticket to Ohio, which is like 2 states over, and the "bargain" price I found was $400. The average was about $700.

If they strike and Delta goes out of business, how do you think that will affect the industry as a whole?

erin · Chanel

Seashells wrote:

Erin- I do agree with you though- if the execs didn't have the ridiculous salaries, they probably wouldn't be in trouble... but i guess as my boss always says, S*#t flows downhill. If all pilots and stewards in all airlines got together and refused these pay cuts is the only way that this would work. But I suspect people will trade sides when out of work.

i see what you are saying, and i agree partially. i wish that *had* been the case...(that they all banded together across the board)

irene, i am feeling too lazy to look up stats, but even if you have only ten execs, there is a HUGE gap between wages of execs/employees. sometimes by like 300%. maybe in a year that doesn't affect the bottom line, but over time it sure does. and why are they getting these inflated wages anyhow? they obviously aren't gearing the company in the right direction.

also i want to add iirc, southwest airlines is union and is doing well. (although i have no idea the gap between the ceo pay and employee pay)

i think another thing to consider is that maybe these companies should look at their business plans and think of more creative ways to get their numbers up rather than cutting wages.

also, this is an entirely different topic, but i don't get why there isn't a trend of big business lobbying for universal healthcare, which would no doubt release a major burden off of their books.

Irene · Dooney & Bourke

Maat, I understand what you are saying.

Erin, I have no problem with the employees not wanting to take another pay cut. I fully understand that. But the reason I am anti-union (and have been for a long time) is that through a union employees can strike, interrupting not only thousands but millions of lives. And that I cannot agree with. Unions that go on strike often do get what they want in the end anyway so they screwed with everyone for nothing.

Take the NYC strike for example...an interim agreement was made between the TWA and the MTA and it only contained what was originally agreed to, and they refused it anyway. So what was the whole point?

Another thing about unions is that a company has to go through hoops to fire anyone. So they are forced to continue to pay people who don't do good jobs.

Ugh, the whole situation just stresses me out. I have been a long time passenger of Delta and have been treated very well by them. I do want the pilots to get paid more than they get currently and would love for them to get what they deserve. I mean, smeone flying a plane 30,000 with the lives of 150-300 in their hands deserve every dollar. But if the airline cannot afford to pay you what you want, then what can you expect them to do? You cannot pull money out of a hat unfortunately.

honey · Gucci

i'm pro union, mainly b/c i had a union job and the union protected me when the company tried to fire me for bullshit.

that aside i fully support the workers right to strike. while it sucks, sometimes it's necessary, especially in service industries. a lot of times people take workers in the service industry for granted and they are such a vital part of our lives. most people in these industries get paid such crap wages, and have to put up with so much.

i've been on the other side. during christmas of 2004, united (us?) employees staged a sick out on 12/24. while it sucked for me personally (well not that much i was refunded the ticket price and put on a plane) sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

to me a lot of this reminds me about the arguments people make concerning teachers vs. pro-athletes & celebs. yeah we all want them to get paid more, but how many people are going to reach into their pockets and pay more money for that to happen? to me it's the same thing. if delta emailed you and said your ticket was going to go up by $100 would you still pay them.

Irene · Dooney & Bourke

honey wrote:

if delta emailed you and said your ticket was going to go up by $100 would you still pay them.

Actually, yes I would. Flights are pretty cheap, we paid only $220 from NY to LA. I have no problem paying a bit more if I knew it was going to the employees.

That argument of teachers versus celbs doesn't fly either. When you go into an industry, you know what the average pay is. You cannot compare the two industries. This is different from the pilots because they are having their wages reduced.

Anyway, we just went through a strike 4 moths ago. I don't think we can deal with another one right now.

-- Edited by Irene at 21:35, 2006-04-04

honey · Gucci

you should call them and share that sentiment. maybe they won't strike.

and we can agree to disagree on the teacher thing. the underlying idea is the same. people deserve to get paid fairly for their work, and that is the point. regardless of the "choice" they make in the decision. you could argue that pilots continue to stay in the airline industry despited the fact that it's doing poorly and pay cuts should be expected. that still doesn't make it fair.

Irene · Dooney & Bourke

I got you, but then we have to decide what is fair? How can you put a monetary value of most jobs?

Mandy · Kate Spade

I'm from Atlanta (Delta's headquarters) so you can imagine what a big deal this is here. A LOT of my friends work for Delta too. Thing is, regular employees have already taken paycuts and have started paying a lot more for their healthcare and benefits. Delta pilots make more money than pilots of any other airline and work fewer hours per month. I understand that taking a paycut sucks no matter how much you make, but if Delta goes under they won't be able to get jobs making nearly what they do now. It seems they might be willing to do this to help their company so they can keep their jobs. The union and the company are only off by 2%.

NCshopper · Hermes

While I definitely see the business side of things, you have to remember that pilots, flight attendants, etc have taken paycut after paycut lately and it's ridiculous. My dad was an airline pilot for 30+ years and after 9/11 lost a TON not only in salary, but pensions.

While I agree that cutting the salaries of CEOs and upper level execs wouldn't necessarily do much to improve Delta's financial picture, if the CEOs and upper level execs were to take pay cuts and demonstrate their commitment to the company and their willingness to roll with the punches, then that morale would trickle down to the pilots. It just sucks to be a pilot and have to take a pay cut when you know that everyone else above you is making the same as they were before.