STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

blubirde · Chanel

Staying at home vs. working at a job

poptart · Coach

Great question ...

For me, work is important and fulfilling. But, since making the transition to working part time, I feel like I am so much more productive and less stressed - both at work and away from work. I have always been "balanced" in terms of participating in a ton of activities outside of work - but before, I was always exhausted because I didn't have time to do them all but still refused to give any of them up. Now, it's much better. The conclusion I've drawn from this is that the work week in the U.S. is too long. I work 30 hours a week, and it's perfect.

That said, I love my work, and wouldn't want to give it up now or any time in the foreseeable future.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

I think that work can be an enjoyable part of life if your working in a field that works for you (so not eloquntly stated, but whtev!). If I didn't mind putting more time and money than I already have into schooling, I think I would love to be a nutritionist/dietician...but considering I studied political science, that's not happening anytime soon!

bumblebee · Coach

i've always thought about it as non-negotiable, too--but for different reasons than you. to be honest, i have really mixed feelings about the whole thing. my mom stayed home with us (ok, she still stays home and no one is sure what she does all day--my youngest sibling hasn't lived at home in 6 years).

so i have a real mix of jealousy and resentment towards her for that--she was a good mom, the kind that makes homemade play-dough and rolls around on the floor with her babies, but by the time we got into school i think she was very burnt-out and resentful about having kids be her full-time job. she was constantly angry, yelled at us while making our dinner, snapped at my dad (who would come home from his long day to spend his evening mediating mom's bitchiness) and did all kinds of passive aggressive things like being 30 min. late to pick us up from school every.single.day, even though there was no reason on earth she couldn't get there on time.

partly i am jealous because i feel certain that i will never have a relationship like the one she has with my dad--where he makes lots of money and she just gets to hang around and spend it with nary a negative comment from him, and partly i am glad that i won't because i think it has caused her a lot of misery. she's not confident in her abilities enough to go get a job at this point (even a fun volunteer job), and so out of touch with the real world that it's actually kind of sad. sometimes i think that her little fantasy-bubble looks so great, but if i'm honest with myself, i know that i wouldn't want it. even though it sucks to work at a soul-sucking job every day, i think that there's something to be said for going through it, for marching through that responsibility and structure every day.

ETA: that if i ever do have kids, i'd love to be able to stay home with them for the first few years--i think that that's a really wonderful thing to be able to do for your family. if i lived in an ideal world, i'd stay home for 2 years maybe, and then go back part-time when they're in school. in theory i love the idea of the SAHM, i am just really wary of the trap it can become, because of the object lesson of my mother.

-- Edited by bumblebee at 16:36, 2006-02-15

jj · Kate Spade

I have always thought of a job being nonnegotiable too. I have thought about it a lot lately, because we are planning a major move and possibly having children.

Right now, I work because 1. we live in a really expensive area and I can't afford not to and 2. I like the feeling of contributing to society, and fortunately I work in a rewarding field. I like having a routine and a "place to be," because I know myself and actually function better when I have places to be and things to do.

Even though we live in a high-rent area, I don't have to work crazy hours and my job is low-stress. I walk 8 blocks to get here, so I don't have a horrible commute. If I worked long hours and drove an hour each way, I would probably be hating life right now.

I was sick last week and worked from home, and by Friday, I was going nuts. It really made me think about what I will do when I have kids. Everything can change then, but right now I would love to work 2-3 days a week and be a SAHM the other days. But finding that kind of part-time job is going to be a challenge.

I also know that if we won the lottery tomorrow, I would quit my job the next day One of my friends got laid off last year, and she took off for Mexico for a month to learn yoga. It maybe cost her $500, which is nothing, but for me, I don't have that kind of flexibility. My boss would FREAK if I asked for anything more than a week off at one time. She will definitely freak if/when I tell her I'm pregnant and go on maternity leave.

So, after looking back at what I read, I guess I like working and have a good gig, but would love to have a chunk of time off just to do something different. I think that may be my new goal for 2006.

Thank you blubirde for making me think about this!

laken1 · Hermes

For me working wasn't optional. I was raised to get an education & be able to take care of myself, all of which I did (uh, and still can I may add). I started working when I was 13 & worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet during college & such. After I graduated & started my "career" I really felt in the push of things, there was no choice. So i kept moving up & moving up because gee, it's more money, it's what i was "supposed" to do & my ex didn't make enough for me to have an option. Then after I divorced I was obviously on my own & had to work to pay the bills. I never DREAMED i'd stay home, i sounded a lot like your responses blubirde. If you told guys that I used to date that I was cooking they would tell you that you were a big fat liar. But I was just having a lot of issues over the pressure, although I must admit it may have been the job / industry I was in. But now I equate career with stress because I just feel that if I'm going to work full time & be gone from my home, I'm going to make the most money possible or i'd feel like it's a waste of my time. And I don't know anyone who makes really good money that doesn't have a stressful job - that's why they pay more.

I can also tell you - I have been working 3 days a month a 8-5 type of job & I can't stand the traffic, the commute (which i will always have living in the dallas area), the what's for dinner, stopping at the store to get stuff, being grouchy when I get home because i still have to cook, wash clothes, feed animals, scrub the toilet, etc. And if I don't have to do it I'm just not going to. It brings back haunting feelings that I hate & brings out the worst in me, which we both hate.

It's the "groundhog day" syndrome - I HATE feeling like today is just like yesterday & tomorrow & it's 5 years later & it's still the same. I worked the same job doing the same thing for 3 years, years before that in a different job same thing, lada lada. And some might say "that's life" but it's not my life now so I don't accept that.

We also have tax issues - if I make over $30K it pushes us into the next tax bracket & anything between $30K & $65K we lose money. And that doesn't count the whole eating out, gas, clothes expense, us eating out dinner because I'm not home to cook, etc etc.

ETA: Also my Dh doesn't make "a lot" of money - it's not like we can afford to do all of the things we want to do or have everything we want. He makes "enough" money & we sacrifice some material things for both of our pieces of mind.

-- Edited by laken1 at 16:33, 2006-02-15

MissMee · Kate Spade

I think everyone's pov is bound to be different. A few years ago, it was non-negotiable because we needed the extra money and because I had just graduated and gotten my job. Some people absolutely love working and setting goals for themselves, climbing ladders, meeting deadlines. My husband is one of them. He loves to go to work (for the most part). Of course, his is also out of necessity since I don't go.

I didn't view work as keeping me from doing other stuff, but I did view it as keeping me from seeing my son as he was growing. By the time I got home, I was too tired to be much fun. Some working moms have much more energy than I do, though. I'm a very low-energy type of gal, and I'm an early-to-bed-early-to rise type, too. But I guess that's beside the point.

So, to each her own. My hats off to you girls that WANT to work (not that I'm not "working," mind you) or that HAVE to work and raise families too. I'm sure there are plenty of people that can't imagine staying at home and being unfulfilled in a professional way. I can see the intellectual side of the argument, because I think I'm getting dumber by the day! Work outside the home is just not for me. I'm more domestic. Well, except that I don't do toilets. I love being in charge of my house and all the things in it. I love being able to spend all day with my kids, even when they've stepped on my last nerve and then thrown up on it. I'll never get these days back. I can always go back to work.

zeitgeist4 · Gucci

There are a number of factors for me in the "Work vs. Home" debate.

1. I don't have a BF/DH, so I depend on me. So staying home is obviously not an option at this point.

2. In the future if there is someone in the position to support me, I would feel weird staying home because I don't want children. I would have some sort of non-stress job, maybe even something part time. Not necessarily a "career" job, but something. Shopping is something I like to do and I would feel guilty having my DH work to support my "habit," so I like the idea of "I earned it, so I don't feel guilty spending it." Also I'm sure I would end up bored after a while. What I'm trying to say is that without there being children to take care of, I don't feel there would be a good enough reason to not work.

3. If I did plan on having children I would want to be a SAHM. I understand that many families aren't in the position to live on one income, but I couldn't stand the thought of bringing a child into the world and dumping him off with nanny/daycare and having a stranger raise him. Kids are so much work and I know I couldn' t handle working a full time job and then coming home to deal with them. I'm not being mean, I just couldn't do it.

4. My mom was/is a SAHM and I think that's why my brother and I turned out so well compared to some of the complete terrors I see throwing tantrums in stores. My parents were married for 6 years before they had me, and up until then my mom had worked in the AP/AR department at a college bookstore. Now that her birdies are leaving the nest, she can't really go back to work even if she wanted to because she has become so out of touch with technology. She can just *barely* check e-mail or a website. I wouln't want to stop working and get so out of touch like she did.

Anyway, that's about it for me. Again, sorry if anyone felt disrespected. That wasn't the intention.

Maddie · Coach

I can't imagine not working. Not that it's not the best choice for other people but I would seriously watch TV all day long. I would do absolutely nothing. I'm sure of it. And I think I would end up fat and depressed. I'm horrible at cooking, cleaning, etc and I'm inherently lazy. Also I think if I had kids I would just die if I had to stay home with them all day. Which is maybe why I shouldn't have them.

A career has always been a goal of mine. Not in some sort of executive power bitch way, but that's a way that I hope to find fufillment in my life. I want to do work that's meaningful to me and I think I need the structure of a job to be productive. I also realize this is all very nice for me to say when I'm a college student and not working.

Just as background...my dad is a complete workaholic. He's a lawyer and I'd say he works 70 hours a week. He was, however, in no way an absent parent and would do anything for my sister and me. I think he would've loved to be a stay at home dad, but he's the sort of person who if he does something he's going to do it well and so he's going to be the best damn lawyer he can. My mom worked when I was little, and then took some time off, and then I think went back to work part time. She was also my PTA president and Girl Scout leader and tons of other things when she wasn't working. We had nannies when I was little and I still have a really close relationship with them today. I also think nannies in no way affected my relationship with my mom. If anything it was probably better for it cause she doesn't like small children and would've died being alone with my sister and me all day. How sweet, right?

Maddie · Coach

Also...I feel like the kid of guys who are interested in me aren't the kind of guys who'd be cool with having a stay at home wife.

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

Growing up, I was always pretty competitive and reasonably ambitious, and for some reason always assumed I'd work in the "corporate" world in some way. Not sure where the idea came from, since my mom is a SAHM. But I don't mind the routine of going to work every day, and I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment that comes with developing new business, seeking out new opportunities, etc. I can also see very much enjoying being a SAHM, however. My mom was able to help in our classrooms, play with us, make us lunch every day, volunteer, go on camping trips, come to all of our games/swim meets/regattas, etc. She also had the time to do volunteer work that is fulfilling to her. And now that all her children are grown, she has actually started working as a dog trainer and behaviorist. I guess I see being a SAHM as a way of doing all the things you find truly fulfilling. For example, I would work on becoming a yoga instructor and massage therapist. I would also do volunteer work. For my mom, it meant that she could spend time with her children, raise Guide Dog puppies, become a Red Cross volunteer...

I guess what this all comes down to is I can see the advantages in both situations, and I would probably like to experience both. Right now I enjoy working, but some day I would like to have the time to devote to all the many activities that I enjoy outside of work - preferably before retirement. I'm lucky that my job will allow me to go and study in Spain, or take longer breaks, but someday I would like to have the freedom to take my kids and spend several months in Europe.

twinkle · Coach

My thoughts on the subject have changed alot in the past year. I've always been incredibly ambitious. I've always wanted a high power job, to make alot of money and have that prestige. My job is very high stress and I work at least 70 hrs a week on average right now. And I'm starting to just get over it. I do still want to make alot of money, so that is my dilemma. But I'm finding I just don't care about the level of power I attain as much as I used to- I'd rather have a life. And not be tied down to an office every single day. And get more than 2 weeks off a year which I find so depressing!

Elle · Hermes

I grew up with parents that worked hard at shitty jobs for low wages only to go unappreciated, so I find the idea of being fulfilled by work hard to grasp. And at this point, me going to school would majorly throw off our life plans (FH's advancement, baby, build house, etc) and cause more financial strain than I would likely be able to remedy.

I'm also quite a homebody, and if I'm out of the house alllll day at work the last thing I want to do when I get home is go out again, even if it is supposed to be for 'fun'. So all my extracurriculars where the things that got dropped, and all I did with my life was work. I just didn't have the energy to be mentally engaged through work and my 'real' life too. FH is a super-go-getter and can't stand to sit still, and he would drive himself mad if he didn't work!

FWIW, our original plan when FH got into school was that I'd support him while he went to school, and then he'd support me while I figured out what the hell I wanted to do with myself. It was only when he got a job that turned out to be more lucrative than in our wildest dreams that the plans to do nothing for awhile formed. In a way I feel like I earned this break through my (our) own good planning and execution! Besides, I started working when I was 13 part-time, went full-time (after school/weekends) at 16, and worked continuously until this last summer. So with 8 years of work experience under my 21 year old belt, maybe I'm getting in my carefree years now?

So in conclusion to this book I've just written, my goal is to experience life and the people in my life to the fullest. And because we plan on only having one child, I don't want to miss a second of their younger years - I want to savor it and tuck all the memories away all the more because I only get one chance! I'd rather spend my time with my family and friends than with people who only care about what happens to me if it makes more work for them.

-- Edited by Elle at 17:49, 2006-02-15

sfclinevandy · Coach

Like a few others, I'm in school full time now but I plan on working after I graduate. Since I have never worked full time as a lawyer, we'll see how much I like it after graduation. Luckily with my HR Masters, there's a good chance I could work that so I'm not pigeon-holed into legal jobs. I guess I'm really practical and I feel like I should work for a while so there's some sort of ROI for all my education costs.

bumblebee · Coach

this thread is really fascinating--i keep coming back to read everyone's responses. everyone has such different feelings about this subject--it's cool to see all the different viewpoints.

blubirde · Chanel

I'm also intrigued by the use of the word "ambition." What does that mean exactly? Is being a postal worker ambitious? Is being a lawyer? Why does ambition come into the mix when we're discussing staying at home vs. working?

Here's the definition of ambition, according to dictionary.com:

am·bi·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-bshn)
n.

1. An eager or strong desire to achieve something, such as fame or power.
2. The object or goal desired: Her ambition is the presidency.
Desire for exertion or activity; energy: had no ambition to go dancing.

Technically, staying at home and pursuing all of one's own non-work related goals is also ambitious.

And where does money and power play into the equation? What about power and equality in relationships? Do those of us that work feel more equal in our relationships with other workers/SOs? Does staying at home, running errands, cooking, and cleaning compare with bringing home 30k+ a year? Does it provide for a different dynamic with friends/family/acquaintances/SOs?

What about our obligation to ourselves as women to continue the equality fight and make ourselves visible in the workplace? I think this is my biggest issue that I'm torn about. I'm torn on the thought that a woman MUST stay in the workplace to do her duty to womankind vs. a woman working her ass off at home, which, to me, would be a waaay harder job than showing up to an office every day. Each is a choice and I don't know that either does an injustice to women at all. But one is visible and one is not. So how does that affect us? Does it affect us? I would imagine that if I stayed at home instead of working, I would be consumed with this issue and horribly offended if someone suggested I wasn't doing my part, just because I happened to be filling a traditional gender role.

Anyway, I'm still curious and excited to see everyone's responses. This is such an interesting subject for me. I think about it constantly, which is totally weird, I know.

I think another reason I work instead of stay at home is that doing things like cooking and cleaning would be like torture for me. I'm not good at any of that stuff and I, like Maddie, am inherently lazy, so I'd spend most of my day watching tv. Maybe women who don't work are actually waaayy more ambitious than I could ever be, because you actually choose your time and spend it doing things that you want/need to do when it would be so very easy to do something else entirely. Maybe I'm consumed with this issue because I'm scared of what kind of person I'd be without a job to call my purpose everyday. Hmmm... something to think about.

Elle · Hermes

blubirde wrote:

Technically, staying at home and pursuing all of one's own non-work related goals is also ambitious. And where does money and power play into the equation? What about power and equality in relationships? Do those of us that work feel more equal in our relationships with other workers/SOs? Does staying at home, running errands, cooking, and cleaning compare with bringing home 30k+ a year? Does it provide for a different dynamic with friends/family/acquaintances/SOs?

I feel like FH and my relationship is actually much better now than when I was working. When I was working, we were both very stressed and didn't have a lot of money, and I was very resentful and nitpicky about chores and housecleaning and the like. I felt really stretched-thin and we bickered alot.

Now because I take care of all the necessary-evil stuff, our time together is ours to do with what we please, and we can both enjoy it because neither of us are stressed and there's less tension between us. I do occasionally have to remind him that just because I'm home doesn't mean that he gets to take advantage though.

I'm having trouble putting into words how I feel about the women in the workplace issue. I'll think about it and edit later.

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

simply put, and without going into a whole dissertation on the subject (which i easily could), i didn't *feel* like myself when i was working. i have only had one "real job" so i couldn't say if it was just that job or if any job would make me feel that way, but i felt some part of my spirit being sucked away. i have always been a very internal person, don't know how to really say that, but very introspective and analytical, very living inside my head, and i found my mind to be just vacant when at work, most evenings and even sometimes during the weekend. i wasn't passionate about things as much. i didn't have dreams and ambitions. i just wanted the day to be over. i know this is all weird, and touchy-feely and doesn't make a lot of sense, but it just made me feel like i wasn't the same person anymore. or who knows, maybe i was just suffering from depression. either way, working (at that job at least) didn't agree with me.

but as i mentioned in the the other thread, i am planning to go back to school and i am passionate about what i plan to study and am excited at the prospect of working in my chosen field but i feel that that field expresses who i am, and maybe that feeling of losing part of myself won't be there. but i admit that i am also interested in the possibilities for a part-time schedule or job sharing, etc. so i hope to be able to balance working and not working, we will see if i'm able to do so.

-- Edited by valenciana at 18:26, 2006-02-15

manhattanmonkey · Kenneth Cole

In the area where I live, you either go to school and get a top degree, or you end up working at the bank or at a lawyer's office as a secretary. Both of the "mothers" (mom & step-mom) in my life hate their jobs (may be strong, but deep down I think it's true). I've always observed them and knew that I don't want to be in their situation.

My dad on the other hand is in a job where he is flexible to control his own hours and I was able to spend so much time with him as he went out on assignments as I was growing up and I loved it. That is why I'm where I am today. I want to get a good education and find a job that I'm happy at. If it's flexible, it would be even better.

I've always been very goal oriented (I love kids and want to adopt because I can't have children and I've never been in a relationship) and hope to really make something of myself and find a job and location where I'm really happy. Both of my parents had problems finding jobs when I was young and I was always so afraid that would happen to me. But that's made me more well, guess ambitious to make soemthing of myself. I so appreciate what they did for me as I was growing up and hope I can repay them someday.

I watch my mom and step-mom and they go to work 5 days a week and LIVE for the weekends. I can't imagine only having a life on the weekends. I told my dad recently that I understand you have to make a living, but what kind of life is it if you work so much that you don't get to enjoy life? (And the life you're working so hard to enjoy) I don't think work gets in the way, I think it's just a matter of finding the balance for each individual.

Hope all this made sense.

luckylily · Gucci

I absolutely hate any type of domestic work. My husband and I share the chores. With the exception of walking the dog, which we both enjoy, we just barely get by. Anyone who was even remotely a clean freak would probably think we are slobs. Fortunately, we are both at the same "slob level." I think I'd go crazy if I was at home. I often joke that I would love to knit full time, but in reality I probably wouldn't want to do so much of the same thing.

I find myself really motivated by my work. However, I do think that I'm really lucky to work in a place that is super flexible about hours and scheduling. My org doesn't just give lip service to work-life balance, they actually do things to ensure that people aren't working too much. IMO, working for a cause I believe in strongly also helps. If I didn't work for an enviro group, I would probably want to volunteer for one.

I could never cut it in a field that was really cutthroat, where you had to claw and fight your way into better positions.

As background, I grew up in a house where my Dad worked a lot and my Mom stayed home. My Dad did really well and we never wanted for anything. He made enough money that he was able to retire before he was 50, but he also always made time for family vacations and anything my sister and I needed. However, I suspect that he never really enjoyed his career. He always encouraged my sister and I to do something we loved, even if it wasn't as financially beneficial as other careers. When he was a teenager, he wanted to be a Marine Biologist, and I think he kind of always regretted not pursuing that career.

My Mom stayed at home. It was great to have her around. A lot of people have pointed out some of the benefits of SAHM, but I think there are some down sides too. As a toddler, since my Mom was at home, I hardly ever interacted with other kids. When I started going to school, it was a horrible time for me. I didn't know how to relate to other kids, and I hated being away from my Mom. Also, my Mom's life revolved around my sister and I. As a child, and even as an adult, it can be really stressful to be so completely the center of someone's universe. I often wish that my Mom had something else to be happy about other than her kids.

Anyway, I feel like my husband and I have a good balance. We both work mid-level jobs. We make enough money to pay the bills plus enjoy a little shopping and a few dinners out every month. I know I could make more money, and that would certainly be nice, but I'm not interested in the increased stress that goes along with it.

I've had jobs where I felt like the life was being sucked right out of me. That I would go home and my head would just be empty. It was depressing and really hard to motivate myself. With my current job, I tend to work 8 hours a day and have plenty of energy in the evenings to go out with friends or dh and do stuff around the house. When I hear people say that they get home and are too tired to do anything other than watch tv, I always wonder if it isn't a little bit of job related depression.

In general, I think our society puts to much emphasis on careers and not enough on enjoy the little time we have to really life.

-- Edited by luckylily at 18:25, 2006-02-15