STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

ILoveChoo · Hermes

staying home/ not working

bumblebee · Coach

i can't give advice on this because i'm single and have never had the option of not working my ass off, but it sounds like maybe there's something a bit deeper going on than just the work/not work decision. have you guys ever been to counseling? it sounds like your husband isn't really seeing you the way you see yourself, and placing expectations on you that are not really effective for the person you actually are. it's hard to be happy when you are trying to live your life to fit someone else's idea of who you are. i mean this in the kindest way and i don't know you, just what you have said here--but it sounds like if it wasn't the job, it would be something else and maybe it would be helpful to talk really honestly about why he has these rigid expectations of you. i hope i haven't overstepped--just commenting on what pops out to me.

Drew · Gucci

Oh sweetie, I know where you are coming from!

I have talked to SO about staying home after a baby, but he says, "No way!" My ideal situation is what you envision yours to be: staying home to take care of a house and working in a field (part-time) that is stimulation, but not stressful.

I have come to realize I'm not getting that life. It's ok though because I have come to terms with it, and realize that it's just not in our cards; SO doesn't want sole burden like yours doesn't.

I know what you mean about being exhausted after work, yet having to do all the household chores. That's me too. I don't work hard or anything but I am out of the house all day, and must be home by 7pm (and that allows me just enough time to go to the gym or do errands and hit the grocery store) in order to sweep, do laundry, cook dinner, clean-up dinner and do dishes (ok, just load the dishwasher), not to mention all the stuff that isn't daily but always needs to be done like dusting and cleaning bathrooms and what-not. I go through phases where I am like Super Woman and can get everything done, but right now my house is looking like a shambles; I haven't swept in a couple days, plus I have bags and crap around the upstairs from vacation. I can't even begin to imagine how women handle all that with kids too. I told SO when we have kids we will also be getting a bi-weekly maid, and he agreed. Anyway, just trying to sympathize. It is difficult, but that's life, huh?

NCshopper · Hermes

Ooh, that's tough. My husband and I haven't gotten to that point yet, but whenever we decide to have kids, it'll be interesting. My husband would be happy to retire tomorrow, which would be fine and all if I didn't want to stop working to raise kids. So my point I guess is that I really think every couple, or at least most, has to deal with this issue at some point in their relationship.

Anyway, I don't think you're lazy at all. It sounds like you and your husband are just wired a little bit differently and maybe he doesn't understand that you're not wired like him. I think some people are more competitive and like the challenge of advancing in their careers and other people just don't find that rewarding. It doesn't mean that you're lazy or unambitious or anything like that--all it means is that you don't find that kind of thing terribly fulfilling.

Maybe just explaining that to him would help. Something along the lines of "Listen, I know you like your job/career and you find joy and excitement and some fulfillment in that, but I think I'm just different. I don't find it fun or rewarding and I don't think my personality is the type that will find a life like that to be ultimately a fulfilling life."

Personally, I think if he makes enough to support the two of you and you could only work a few days a week, I think you could come to a compromise.

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

I quit my job when we had to move to where my then-fiance started a new job. I hated my last job and it really wore me down...the morale was so low among everyone there, I think every employee was on anti-depressants at one point or another, no one was happy working there.

So after what I felt was a pretty draining experience at that job, I wanted to take a little break. We had talked about it for a while and tried to be extra frugal to save the money so that I could not work for a while. Also, we moved in May and were getting married in August, so I decided to just spend that time planning the wedding and recovering from my toxic job.

So the plan was for me to start looking for a job after the wedding. I did look, I didn't see much...I was kind of terrified of getting another job like the one I had before...I applied for a few jobs that I actually wanted, but didn't apply for jobs that I knew I would hate just to be applying for jobs. Plus, I knew what I really wanted to do was go back to school, and I felt weird getting a job that I would quit in only a few months. Since DH makes a decent amount of money and we decided that my potential income wasn't as important as me pursuing my goals. So I became a full-time housewife/grad school applicant.

But I do have to mention that DH was a teensy bit apprehensive about me "sitting around, eating bon-bons" but now that it's been several months and the apartment is cleaner than it ever was before, DH gets his drycleaning done regularly, and I've been experimenting with new recipes and cooking all the time, he has admitted that he really likes me staying home. So while this was only meant to be temporary until I started school and then ultimately started working, I know that in the future if I want to stay home when we have kids, etc. I can use his appreciation of what it means to have me stay home as leverage.

ETA: now that I've read what others have said (they all posted while I was writing my saga), I have to add something else...my husband doesn't always love his job, and I can see how it might be frustrating to have a hard day and then come home to someone who has had time to hang out and hasn't had demands made on them by bosses or whatnot, but we each have our role and we take care of each other in different ways. I like that when there are days or even weeks that DH is stressed about work that he doesn't have to worry about the laundry or cleaning the bathroom too. And I think he likes knowing that his working takes care of both of us financially and that reassures him sometimes that his job means something beyond the paperwork. We may be living out very traditional gender roles, but right now we both feel like we are contributing significantly, even if my contribution doesn't provide any tangible income.

-- Edited by valenciana at 13:04, 2006-02-15

laken1 · Hermes

First of all, I don't think you are selfish or lazy at all. (coming from ms. at home herself!).

I had a "career" & thought I was really ambitious but as it turns out I just really needed a bigger paycheck so I kept interviewing the next position up. And I was MISERABLE. I got laid off & got offered a really great job (very close to 6 figures) & I just straight passed. No thank you. It may sound crazy but all I could think was that if I have to work as hard as I do now, I'll have to work even more & I'll be even MORE miserable & life's too short. I was very lucky though that my then boyfriend (now DH) was very supportive of me staying home. His ex didn't work & he didn't think it was any big deal. He also didn't care if I worked or didn't, he just wanted me to be happy. I had to change my spending habits, turn in my acura (lease) & drive a clunker, and make some adjustments to what I expected materially, but I think it's totally worth it.

I don't know what to tell you to do with the DH situation. For me it's easy because I feel like it's my job to take care of this house, do laundry, run errands for my husband & myself, cook, etc. I have always considered myself a feminist & think it's a completely different situation to take on that role yourself than if someone dictates that you do it...although I realize you didn't ask that, but I always feel that I have to explain myself to other women because I find people are quick to judge.....ANYWAY - if you are already doing all of those things on top of work, it's hard to argue the point that it will make his life easier. But I'd start there if you think you would take on all of those things - for example, is he helping around the house now? Would you expect him to keep doing those things? How can you make it beneficial for him for you to be home? I would explain to him that you think it would make you a happier person. And you may find out that it doesn't & you could go back to work. But at least if you tried it out & he saw a change maybe he'd be more supportive? Or go to work part time?

I've been at home for almost 2 years & I really don't think I could go back to living the way I was. I just felt like I was running around all the time, neglecting myself, all to pay the bills & to live up to the expectations of everyone else when it's not even what I wanted. I just started working out of my house answering phones for a friends' business about 2 months ago, and I love it. I'm at work right now in my pjs with my kitty in my lap, filing my nails & posting on ST!

Good luck & seriously, please don't feel bad. I just think we get one shot & I really don't want to say I spent all my time at the office so I could have the latest & greatest stuff....No offense AT ALL to those who strive for a career & reward themselves for doing so. Just for me I felt like a big fat fake & that I was doing it for all the wrong reasons....

ILoveChoo · Hermes

oh, please don't worry about overstepping! It's hard to really explain everything in writing since a lot of it is emotional so I'd really rather hear everyone's thoughts. And don't think this is refuting eveything you said- I just want to explain what's in my head a little more.

It's honestly as much him as it is me. Other than that he wants me to work (and I think that's more of a "why should I bust my ass so you can stay home" kind of thing) he really doesn't hold me to any other expectations. I hope I didn't make him sound like an awful person- he's not at all. I am a perfectionist and always have been so the whole work thing is really frustrating for me- it's me forcing myself to be something I'm not just as much as it is him. And I'm the one who insists that I do all the cooking (although I really wouldn't mind him pitching in with the other chores). I think I get overwealmed with this a lot too though- my mom always stayed home so i dont' really have any point of reference on how to balance home and work life. My mom always just did everything home related and dad worked. His family was the opposite- mom worked and dad stayed home (but his dad also didn't really do a ton and they ate take out all the time and there house was a disgusting mess).

I'm just really stresses and feel like I'm being spread too thin and not doing anything that I find enjoyable at all.

bumblebee · Coach

i just meant his expectation that you should really enjoy a high-flying career-type job (because he does) rather than understanding that you might be happier in a job-job, like laken is talking about. it didn't sound like he was a bad person at all, just not maybe totally conscious of what's going on with you and why you feel uncomfortable in a corporate setting (the shyness, etc.).

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

is there any way you could take a leave of absence from your job (like a month or something?) to try out staying home? maybe it would help you both see if it's something that would work or not. i don't know if it would be possible where you work to take time off for personal reasons (though i certainly know people who have done similar), but it might be a way to see how it went and still have your job to go back to if it doesn't work out.

blubirde · Chanel

ILoveChoo wrote:

oh, please don't worry about overstepping! It's hard to really explain everything in writing since a lot of it is emotional so I'd really rather hear everyone's thoughts. And don't think this is refuting eveything you said- I just want to explain what's in my head a little more. It's honestly as much him as it is me. Other than that he wants me to work (and I think that's more of a "why should I bust my ass so you can stay home" kind of thing) he really doesn't hold me to any other expectations. I hope I didn't make him sound like an awful person- he's not at all. I am a perfectionist and always have been so the whole work thing is really frustrating for me- it's me forcing myself to be something I'm not just as much as it is him. And I'm the one who insists that I do all the cooking (although I really wouldn't mind him pitching in with the other chores). I think I get overwealmed with this a lot too though- my mom always stayed home so i dont' really have any point of reference on how to balance home and work life. My mom always just did everything home related and dad worked. His family was the opposite- mom worked and dad stayed home (but his dad also didn't really do a ton and they ate take out all the time and there house was a disgusting mess). I'm just really stresses and feel like I'm being spread too thin and not doing anything that I find enjoyable at all.

I don't have an option of staying home (and wouldn't if I did - because I DO NOT enjoy very many domestic activities and I would find it more tortorous than working) so take what I say from that point of view.

It sounds to me like working, per se, isn't your problem. It sounds like you don't like your current job, at least not enough to pursue it up the career ladder, you don't like the way chores are divided up (or lackthereof) at home, and your mental health may be suffering for it, not to mention your particular issues with social anxiety.

My suggestion would be to tackle the easiest problem first: the housework. I'd break it down for your DH in a list. You - work 8+ hours a day. Him - work 8+ hours a day. You - cook dinner, clean bathroom, do laundry, dust, do dishes, etc. Him - time for gym & tv. Or something like that. If you can work on that problem and make your time at home more enjoyable, it might be easier to focus on some of the other issues that are coming up in your life.

As for the social anxiety issue, I'd really suggest seeing a therapist. I wouldn't recommend drugs or anything but talking to someone can really help you establish some coping mechanisms for your anxiety. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the problem has gotten worse, not better over the years and it will probably continue to get worse unless you can figure out some way to help yourself with it.

Also, and I could be totally wrong, it doesn't sound like you don't want any kind of authority but more that you might be scared of some kind of authority. Those two things are vastly different. You actually might not want authority but until you can differientiate between the two, it would be hard to say.

I hope things start looking up for you, ILoveChoo.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

bluebirde, you're so smart...

It sounds to me like working, per se, isn't your problem. It sounds like you don't like your current job, at least not enough to pursue it up the career ladder, you don't like the way chores are divided up (or lackthereof) at home, and your mental health may be suffering for it, not to mention your particular issues with social anxiety.

This is so true. The only problem is while I despise my current job and the field that it's in, I also can't imagine anything else that I would actually enjoy doing. Except for things that are not "careers" or that would require me to go back to school AGAIN and who knows if by the time that was done I would even still want to do that anymore.

As for the social anxiety issue, I'd really suggest seeing a therapist. I wouldn't recommend drugs or anything but talking to someone can really help you establish some coping mechanisms for your anxiety.

I know. I know. How do I find a therapist though? I don't even know where to start...

Also, and I could be totally wrong, it doesn't sound like you don't want any kind of authority but more that you might be scared of some kind of authority.

You're right. I do want it. But at the same time, it scared the shit out of me to the point that I don't.

small fry · Chanel

I would love to stay at home and be there when my son comes home and do the cooking, housework , work in my yard but I have to work because my husband is unable to due to health reasons. I dont want to sound selfish either he is a good man but sometime I hate it just hate. He is at home and I get so upset sometime because the housework does not get done, I mean Iam not saying it has to be sqeaky clean but at least do some simple things. Even with his health isues he is able to do these. I have talked to him many times and it does not help. I understand where you are coming from on not having the time to get the house work done after work and doing everything else. Thanks for sharing because this has been on my mind alot and Iam glad Iam not the only one feeling this way. Pm if you want to talk. Hugs to you and hope you feel better

blubirde · Chanel

ILoveChoo wrote:

bluebirde, you're so smart... It sounds to me like working, per se, isn't your problem. It sounds like you don't like your current job, at least not enough to pursue it up the career ladder, you don't like the way chores are divided up (or lackthereof) at home, and your mental health may be suffering for it, not to mention your particular issues with social anxiety. This is so true. The only problem is while I despise my current job and the field that it's in, I also can't imagine anything else that I would actually enjoy doing. Except for things that are not "careers" or that would require me to go back to school AGAIN and who knows if by the time that was done I would even still want to do that anymore. As for the social anxiety issue, I'd really suggest seeing a therapist. I wouldn't recommend drugs or anything but talking to someone can really help you establish some coping mechanisms for your anxiety. I know. I know. How do I find a therapist though? I don't even know where to start... Also, and I could be totally wrong, it doesn't sound like you don't want any kind of authority but more that you might be scared of some kind of authority. You're right. I do want it. But at the same time, it scared the shit out of me to the point that I don't.

Job - I know exactly what you mean. I can't figure out anything that I could/want to do. I have a friend who went to a career counselor and took a bunch of tests and a session or two with the counselor to help her find out what she wanted to do. She said it was pretty awesome. She volunteered to do the "home" version for me one of these days. Maybe you can find someone like that? (The career counselor.)

Therapist - Do you have a regular MD? Just call the office and tell them you need a referral for a therapist. They may have you come in, although I doubt they will. Most of the time they do the referral, give you a name and do some weird insurance thing so insurance will cover it. Don't worry, they're used to it and I'm sure your Dr. gets requests for referrals to therapists all the time.

Authority - I don't know if this helps or not but I get scared of stuff all the time, too. A lot of the time I bury my head in the sand and avoid the thing that scares me. Eventually I have to come up for air and when I do, I tell myself that if a thing scares me, that's the exact reason I should be doing it. I'm a big, conquer your fears person, although sometimes it takes me quite awhile to get there. (I'm still working on seeing snakes in the zoo.) Also, maybe try doing something that scares you everyday. Something small like having a non-work conversation with your boss. Or talking to the deli guy at the grocery store. Or eating lunch by yourself at a public place. Or whatever. It might help make little things not so scary. (This was something I had to do, step-by-step, when I broke up with an ex years ago. I was scared of everything and could barely function like a normal person in society!) Every once in awhile, if things start looking a little overwhelming to me, I do it all over again (the one thing a day that scares you) and gain some confidence back. I don't know if it helps everyone but it helps me. Hope it can do something for you too!

alb · Marc Jacobs

I didn't have time to read all of the responses to your post but I just wanted to say that you are not selfish and I know exactly how you feel. I totally am "done" with working--the 8-5 thing day in and day out just really gets to me, and I find myself wanting to be at home with Lucy more and more. I also always regret not being able to have time to do things that I enjoy doing b/c I'm too damn tired from working (i.e. exercising, creative pursuits, etc.-even getting tog with friends). I get so much more fulfillment out of being with our 8 month old, making the house nice for my family, and cooking nice meals. etc. Staying home just feels like something I want to do. With both of us working FT in downtown DC, with a 45 minute commute each way (I live in Alexandria), and having to take Lucy to the nanny every day, I'm starting to feel that all this isn't worth it and me working just makes it more difficult for all of us. Once my hubby started to realize the advantages of me staying at home, he became totally on board with the idea so I am quitting at the end of March. it's going to be a HUGE sacrifice financially (as well as a challenge for me personally) but I am SO looking forward to it and seriously feel like the end of March cannot come soon enough. I am concerned about the money part of it as well as missing the "structure" part of my day. I'd love to hear how those of you who stay at home structure your day and was going to post about this eventually. I think if you have a bit of a schedule or routine things might go more smoothly and you wouldn't feel like you are wasting your time. Basically, I think that if you want to stay at home, you should keep trying to talk about it with your husband and find out specifically why he is so opposed to it. If it's the money, maybe you can compromise. Also, come up with a reason that will make it appealing to HIM. When I was on maternity leave my hubby LOVED it b/c the house was clean, things got done during the week which allowed us to have more time on the weekends (ie getting the car inspected, etc.), and I cooked a lot of nice dinners. Once he realized how beneficial it would be for Lucy to be raised by me and noone else (I'm not knocking career moms AT ALL and am only talking about MY situation) and for our lives to be less hectic and run smoothly, he was totaly supportive of the idea. Anyway, sorry for the ramble I just wanted to give you my perspective in case it helps a little. I've pondered this question for a very long time now!

jj · Kate Spade

I just have a few quick thoughts...

- I found my therapist through my primary care doctor. That may be a good place to start. You should be able to talk to you doctor about what you're looking for, and he/she can recommend someone suitable.

- I love the idea of taking a leave of absense from your job. Or just quitting and looking for something you truly love. Maybe you could work part time somewhere while you consider what your options are? It sounds like your current job is miserable and wouldn't make anyone want to get out of bed in the morning.

- Do you have room in the family budget for a cleaning person? We pay $70/every other week, and it really contributes to our happy marriage. I DESPISE cleaning, but want to live in a clean house. We don't work long hours, but I would rather give up something else to avoid spending time cleaning.

Hang in there! It may not seem like it now, but you have lots of options to make your life better!!

Shello · Kenneth Cole

ILoveChoo wrote:

His family was the opposite- mom worked and dad stayed home (but his dad also didn't really do a ton and they ate take out all the time and there house was a disgusting mess).

This just rang a major bell for me. My dad works and my mom stays home, but she does nothing. She has a college degree and never worked in her life, in fact her main reason for getting a degree was to be find a husband in college. My parents waited eight years before having children, and she never worked once in that time. In my lifetime, she rarely cooks dinner (and cooking means hot dogs, pasta, or frozen pizza) and is terrible and errands and running a household. The laundry is never done, and we hire a maid once a week to clean the house. She spends most of the day watching television, and that's always how she's been.

It's been a major influence on my life, because I don't want to end up like her. I know some wonderful women who stay at home but actually do errands and laundry and are beneficial to their families, but my mother isn't one of them. I have always had the desire to pursue education and a career mainly because I don't want to rely on someone else to support me like she does. I think that maybe your husband has some anger about his parents relationship, because I definitely do about mine, and maybe that's why he really wants you to work. Not because he really thinks that if you don't work you'll be lazy, because I'm sure he realizes you're not his father, but it could be subconsciously influencing his feelings.

Elle · Hermes

I just wanted to weigh in on this, because like so many of the previous posters I am in this very same situation myself. And so, commiseration:

I've never liked my jobs, regardless of whether they were in a field I cared about or not. And as hard as I try I can't think of any job that I'd give up most my life for, which is basically what you do considering any schooling that it would require and then the hours upon hours of actually working and commuting and everything. There is no room for anything else! Now that we're in a situation financially where it's possible for me not to work, I'm not. I never had very much earning power anyway, so now that we have a generous income it seems totally illogical that I'd work so much, because the bills would be paid regardless. FH and I have both talked about me going back to work after the wedding part time, which I will do if and when I find something interesting. I'm hoping that it will help knowing that I don't have to work, and that it's my choice to make to continue or not. It will not be mind numbing office work, I'll tell you that right now!

For awhile FH constantly brought up the fact that he was supporting me, hoping to use it as some kind of leverage. Whenever he would, I'd remind him that I just worked my ass off in a city I hated at a job I hated for 2 entire years to pay for his schooling and for us to live. He stopped after awhile - it just took some getting used to for him. Now my 'job' is taking care of house stuff, running errands, etc. Some days are better than others in regards to what I accomplish, but part of the joy of being able to do as you please is choosing to do nothing at all on occasion.

And it makes me uncomfortable that from the outside it looks like I am a huge lazy ass who's riding the FH gravy train and submitting to the traditional gender roles. The assumptions (and comments) people make are shocking, to say the least. But the truth is, most people would choose not to work if it wasn't necessary, and those people are usually the quickest to pass judgment because they want everyone else to be as miserable as they themselves are. Misery loves company, right?

Bottom line is that I'd rather spend my time enjoying my life. I want to have a family, and a garden, and books, and friends, and a marriage. I want those things more than I want or need any job. And I consider it a great, great blessing that I am able to take advantage of that.

Talk to your DH ILoveChoo and tell him how you feel. It might take some compromise and some getting used to for both of you, but I think you can find a way that will make both of you happy.

MissMee · Kate Spade

*stands up and raises hand*

Me! I'm also a self-proclaimed lazy bitch. I hated working so much! I hated having to know I had to get up by a certain time and be dressed in certain kinds of clothes and still "work" after work (I was a teacher). I felt guilty about sending my son to day care. I was just fortunate enough to have a husband who allowed me to stay at home and who doesn't bitch at me for going shopping. I'd NEVER want to go to work again. Sometimes I think I'd like to do a P/T Anthro or something, but I know I'd hate that, too. I like having the freedom to come and go as I please. I'm not necessarily shy, but I hate taking orders! And I find bosses to be intimidating.

conversely, staying at home can be quite boring. Even with 3 kids! There's very little adult interactions, and even those are usually centered around kids. I don't have to get up w/ the alarm and get dressed and clean every morning, but I have 3 living alarm clocks that make sure I'm up and doing something! There's always a mess to pick up, a fight to break up, some chore to get done, dogs to walk, diapers to change, extra-curriculars to go to, etc. I don't have to deal w/ deadlines or that kind of stress, but staying at home is a whole other kind of stress. Like I tell my husband, "your job ends when you leave your building; mine continues 24/7."

Does this help?

Ritz · Dooney & Bourke

I think staying home is a great thing- IF you can remain fulfilled. i loved having my mom home growing up, it was the best thing ever, but i think that, despite how much she loved us, she was not fulfilled, and in the end i think it was kind of bitter sweet- she loves her life but still regrets the life she could have had/what she could have done/what our family could have done had we had two incomes. however, now that the kids are gone and she is in a position to find something that does fulfill her and make her happy, she almost acts as if it is too late- or worse, she feels bad doing things that are expensive b/c my dad still works so hard. i know she is happy overall, but i feel like she always wonders "what if?"

that said, you need to do with your life what will make you happy. if your job is not making you happy and you are in a position to not work, don't. but please, find something that makes you happy and fulfills you otherwise you will always end up wondering if there is something else out there. I know that housework can be a full time job, and raising children is definitely a 24/7 job, but i think those are sometimes opportunities where one can lose herself.. there was a great article abt a stay at home dad in this month's glamour that speaks of this too...

rlutz · Chanel

right now i work fulll time...I have been working about 50 hours per week since i graduated college in 98....I have never been very happy working so much, but i felt it was something I had to do, I felt i had to be able to take care of myself and not rely on amyone else...I am kinda insecure that way. But recently, I have thought about working part time or not at alll...I brought it up to my husband last night and he said we should sit down and talk about it and see what we can work out...I am due in 8 weeks and am exhausted mentally and physically from work...i work one day a week from home and plan to make it two in March....I am taking 3 months off with the baby, then i have to make a decision...I am not sure i want to go back to work, part time or if it all.
Choo I do not think you are lazy or anything