STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

Lawsuits Filed over Domestic Spying Program

Mandy · Kate Spade

along the same lines there is the fight between google and the white house because the white house is trying to subpoena what is being searched for from google.

im am not ok with this at all. this is way too big brother, and while at this level it seems harmless enough, i worry that it is the first of many steps toward further government spying in the name of crime prevention.

blubirde · Chanel

Thank god for lawsuits. If lawmakers won't do anything about it, at least angry, self-righteous lawyers will.

I'm so glad the leader of the free world thinks spying on one's own citizens is acceptable behavior. What kind of world do we live in???

joy0302 · Kate Spade

I will probably be in the minority here, but I am not really upset about the president admitting to this type of spying. In fact, I would venture a guess that he is not the first president to do such things, he just told us about them. I don't think it is right for innocent citizens to be spied on, but at the same time, I don't think it is right for our government to sit back and pretend like nothing will ever happen on American soil, like they did before September 11. I just feel that if by listening to my conversations about where I am going to meet my friends on Friday night they may also catch someone else on another call talking about a terrorist attack, I would be willing to make that sacrifice on my privacy.

jessallen · Nine West

Glad you posted this joy0302...I agree with you. I think what you said is right on. Plus, I'm pretty sure the government isn't spying on everyone...they're more interested in the people who seem to making suspicious calls and doing suspicious activity. They don't have the resources and I seriously doubt they even want to 'spy' on everyone in the US.

tri_sarah_tops · Marc Jacobs

joy0302 wrote:

I will probably be in the minority here, but I am not really upset about the president admitting to this type of spying. In fact, I would venture a guess that he is not the first president to do such things, he just told us about them. I don't think it is right for innocent citizens to be spied on, but at the same time, I don't think it is right for our government to sit back and pretend like nothing will ever happen on American soil, like they did before September 11. I just feel that if by listening to my conversations about where I am going to meet my friends on Friday night they may also catch someone else on another call talking about a terrorist attack, I would be willing to make that sacrifice on my privacy.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a very serious issue/problem. Our laws are in place for EVERYONE to follow, and they do not exclude anyone, not even the President. Granted, there is no explicit right to privacy under the constitution, but it is implied within the Bill of Rights many times. Wiretapping is considered a search, and the 4th ammendment protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures and states that warrants shall only be issued when probable cause is present. While I may not really care if the NSA is listening to my phone conversations, if they are doing it without a warrant or probable cause, it is illegal.

The Patriot Act was passed after 9/11 in order to allow the goverment to monitor communications related to terrorisim. I don't have a problem with this and I believe that it is important for us to do what we can (within reason) to ensure the security and protection of our country. However, I really believe that Bush has crossed the line on this. This act does not make it legal to monitor the actions of individuals who are not suspected of terrorist affiliation.

It may not seem like that big of a deal right now, but allowing the government to monitor all citizens in this manner could set a dangerous precedent and end up severely limiting our right to freedom of speech. Yeah, at this point I really don't care if the NSA knows why I'm mad at my husband or what I do at work but allowing this kind of surveliance to continue could easily escalate into something much more serious. What happens when this blows up and individual/groups who speak out about government and public policy are targeted? You may or may not be aware of the Pentagon program that included spying on Quaker meeting houses and other various peaceful groups. Specifically a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, FL was listed as a threat because they were planning to protest military recruitment at local high schools.

It also concerns me that Bush seems to think that as president he has a constitutional right to bypass laws that he puts into effect! He has yet to veto a single piece of legislation. Instead (McCain's new torture bill is a specific example) he'll sign the bill but attach a statement saying that as president he has the right to interpret the law in a manner consistent with his constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch. WTF? I've taken government and from what I can remember, there are checks and balances in place to ensure that every branch and government has equal power. This whole unitary executive thing is a scary bunch of crap and I honestly don't think we've even see the half of it.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm attacking anyone because that's not my intention. I'm just a total government geek and I feel very passionately about this. I'm in love with the constitution and the intention that was behind it and I really feel that our country's founders would be shocked and dismayed at the current abuse of power and the infringement of rights. They rebelled against the British government for reasons that are very similar to what we're experiencing now and it makes me really sad. I apologize for the super long post but I don't know many people who are into this kind of thing so it's something I don't really get to talk about much. And thanks to anyone who actually read this whole post :)

jessallen · Nine West

I read your post. Even though our views are different, I appreciated what you wrote!

blubirde · Chanel

tri_sarah_tops - I think you articulated your point very well. I agree with you 100%.

The reason the Constitution was created in the first place was to protect the citizens of the new United States of America from the tyrannies of England. I'm not calling him King George or anything (although I think that's funny) but the founders of our country specifically created a document to govern with for a reason. They didn't put in a clause about the president being able to do what he wanted, regardless of laws for a reason. It's a slipper slope.

Sure, I don't have anything to hide about terrorist activity. But what happens if someone like McCarthy comes along again? Then all of a sudden do my anti-Bush statements get me put on some list and my activities watched? I don't live in a facist state for a reason. If I wanted that kind of lifestyle, there are plenty of places I could go to get it.

Government is not our end all, be all. I think people forget that sometimes. If humans could act decently, we wouldn't even need government. My life is my life, it's not a "subject" for government activities.

As Ben Franklin said, "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." (I'm not sure if that's a direct quote but it's something like that.)

Ally S · Kate Spade

I am presently teaching a course in library school on Ethics & the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act gives so much latitude in to the potential invasion of privacy of anyone, whether you are a US citzen or not. It's a fairly broadsweeping document and has many loop holes to it.

While strides have been made to protect individual's rights to privacy, the American Library Assc. has been one of it's biggest opponents as privacy is something that libraries respect for everyone. This course goes into the what is constitually legal, what is now legal under the act, what is the gray areas that are sort of undefined and what is clearly abused.

While the NSA operates outside of the PA and most other laws, what they have done and still are doing is essentially wrong. The right to privacy should be one of our most cherished rights. Granted most people are not doing much to come up on anyone's radar, but this current administration has used the threat of terrorism and the fear and loss we had on 9/11 as a shield for them to do as they please. Yes, we live in a different world now, but listening to anyone's cell phone calls, wiretapping land lines and intercepting emails is clearly wrong. The president is not above the laws of our land.

If anyone had been following another the story, the White House requested Yahoo and Google turn over their server records from a specific week in August 2005. Yahoo immediately complied and Google refused. The gov't wanted all search records, email documentation with ISP's. When asked pointedly by Google's lawyers what this information was wanted for, they were told National Security. That has become a vague term that can now be used for anything.

Warrants are issued for probable cause cases, if there was a matter of national security the government would easily have been able to obtain a warrant from any judge, but to not even attempt to get one is operating out of the realm of what actually protects the citzens.

Anyone could easily be branded a subversive for having thoughts contrary to the views of an administration. We have seen it happen in other parts of the world. I do not doubt that other administrations have not commited this offense as well, it is the "in your face method", the "so what if we did it" attitude that puts them above the law.

I do not mean to flame anyone's ideas with this post, but just stating some facts.

blubirde · Chanel

Ally S wrote:

I am presently teaching a course in library school on Ethics & the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act gives so much latitude in to the potential invasion of privacy of anyone, whether you are a US citzen or not. It's a fairly broadsweeping document and has many loop holes to it. While strides have been made to protect individual's rights to privacy, the American Library Assc. has been one of it's biggest opponents as privacy is something that libraries respect for everyone. This course goes into the what is constitually legal, what is now legal under the act, what is the gray areas that are sort of undefined and what is clearly abused. While the NSA operates outside of the PA and most other laws, what they have done and still are doing is essentially wrong. The right to privacy should be one of our most cherished rights. Granted most people are not doing much to come up on anyone's radar, but this current administration has used the threat of terrorism and the fear and loss we had on 9/11 as a shield for them to do as they please. Yes, we live in a different world now, but listening to anyone's cell phone calls, wiretapping land lines and intercepting emails is clearly wrong. The president is not above the laws of our land. If anyone had been following another the story, the White House requested Yahoo and Google turn over their server records from a specific week in August 2005. Yahoo immediately complied and Google refused. The gov't wanted all search records, email documentation with ISP's. When asked pointedly by Google's lawyers what this information was wanted for, they were told National Security. That has become a vague term that can now be used for anything. Warrants are issued for probable cause cases, if there was a matter of national security the government would easily have been able to obtain a warrant from any judge, but to not even attempt to get one is operating out of the realm of what actually protects the citzens. Anyone could easily be branded a subversive for having thoughts contrary to the views of an administration. We have seen it happen in other parts of the world. I do not doubt that other administrations have not commited this offense as well, it is the "in your face method", the "so what if we did it" attitude that puts them above the law. I do not mean to flame anyone's ideas with this post, but just stating some facts.

Yet another reason why I love google...