STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

stick it out! So what if you're not a nerd? It sounds like you're very well-rounded, and that will count a lot in the real world. Plus, there are so many things you can do with a law degree besides being a lawyer.

Since you have come pretty far (am I correct in thinking that you are close to being done?) I say stick it out. There are lots of other things you can do and it couldn't hurt you to have a law degree under your belt.

Who cares if you are not like your classmates? I never was either. Chefs (or students in training, whatever) are notoriously big drinkers and partiers and I totally couldn't keep up. I have to say (sorry if anyone does speak elfish) but teaching yourself to speak elfish sounds super sad and dorky. I'm really glad you're not like that.

Good luck, Diz. Keep your chin up!

dizzy sweetie, i'm gonna pm you asap so we can talk because i'm not sure how much help i can be just from your post, but let me try...

Dizzy wrote:

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My evidence professor, my legal professions professor and one dean have recnetly mentioned that I dont' seem very "engaged" by law school classes.

How did this come about?  were they three separate occassions?  do you know what triggered the comments?

And well, it's true. I'm not particularly motivated by the I-know-more-than-you thing in law school.

hmm...ok so you don't like the competition of it all, what about learning the topics in general?  any interest?  if not that's totally fine, just trying to figure out where your ennui is coming from.

Actually, I'm not a brain.

what do you mean by this statement?  because i know for a fact that you are one smart cookie so if something's making you feel less than that, i want to know what it is.

I hate fantasy games or things like the Lord of the Rings.

don't really get this, why do you think you have to like this kind of stuff to like law school?

I've never felt particularly disaffected or outside the majority and wanted to prove myself through my intellectual prowess - which almost all my law school classmates seem to have experienced.

ok this sounds like you think your classmates are nerds/dorks who are trying to be "cool" by being smart and that you don't feel like you fit this mold.  which is perfectly fine, who'd really want to fit this mold anyway?  but i still am not getting the connection between liking law school and having to fit into this stereotype.

I've never really seen the point of good grades, to be perfectly honest. A B is as good as an A, actually better if the B allows me to have more fun while earning it.

sure, point taken.  law school's just very competitive i think because the job market to a certain extent demands it.  but if you don't want those kind of jobs anyway, then wouldn't that make you relax and just soak it all out of sheer interest instead of competitiveness?  is the problem that your classes don't interest you?  if so, what do you think would?  interest you, i mean?

The competitiveness that motivates everyone else isn't doing it for me, either. So I am not the best student, or even a particularly good student. And I don't care too much. That's really frowned on in this atmosphere.

but again, if you don't care, then who cares who's frowning?  are people trying to make you feel inferior or something? 

Also, I have very little in common with most of the other people here. I enjoy the challenge of dealing with them,

hmm..."challenge of dealing with them" sounds like you could really care less about these people and think dealing with them as some kind of social experiment...which can get old fast...

but I am never going to be one of them/learn elvish/memorize harry potter names. And we both know it. Basicaly, I'm pretty bored with my classes and my classmates.

again, how much of it is your classmates and how much of it is your classes?  can you differentiate or do you just hate it all?

So does it matter that I am the fricking law school version of Herbie (from Rudolph, the elf who wanted to be a dentist, I might have his name wrong)? On the one hand, I really like the law, and admire lawyers, and am so excited to be part of this huge tradition.

ok, that's cool that you admire lawyers i guess but what makes them so special?  why do you want to be a part of the "tradition"?  and what tradition, by the way?  what makes being a lawyer different to you than any other profession?

I did a clinic this semester and honestly, I was one of the best there, based pretty much on instinct.

cool, so we've isolated something you enjoyed, what about it did you like?

I love to negotiate - LOVE to negotiate.

ok...what about it do you love?  and do you think you'll be doing much of it as as a lawyer? 

And I can see myself doign something like that. On the other hand, I feel like I don't, and really can't, measure up in the ways that matter in this profession. Or fit in very well. So what do you think? Stick it out, or drop out and go into something more touchy-feely? Should I be trying to jump start my motivation for classes? Are there any tips from former law students? Sorry if this post is a bit jumpy, I haven't quite gotten it all straight in my head yet. I'm just trying to feel my way. Thanks for any thoughts...

i've gotta go but i'll post more about my experience and my friends' as soon as i get a chance. 

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Thanks so much guys. Here's more details:


- Why were my profs tellign me this? These were three separate occasions when I asked questions of my prof and dean. But there have been other instances, including one very well-respected professor who considered my question for a minute before responding "Some people just 'get it' in law school and some people never really do..."

- Why do I think I have to like fantasy games? Because I am tired of being in the minority, forcing myself to keep up with the conversation and having no one to talk to about the stuff that I like. Ok, this is probably how people into LOTR feel in high school. But the rest of my professional life is going to be spent with these people. And I think they're cute but they're already a chore. Plus, a lot of them say little snippy things about me being "smooth" and "shallow" and "into appearances." And the conversational topics that make me light up, hemming jeans, for example, make people look at me like I am totallly insane. People are more successful when they fit in. If you don't fit in, you should think of leaving or find a way to be impressive in your own way, and I can't think of any way to do option two. So, I'm considering leaving.

- Why do I think I am not a brain? I am not a brain. I am sharp about people and ok with classes. But someone who is willing to be ok is really freaky in my school. I'm much less committed than my classmates are and they say little things to remind me of it a lot.

- Do I think my classmates are nerds tryign to be cool? Not exactly. They are cool in their own way. My classmates are relying on their strengths, brain power, and have found a niche where brainpower puts you on top. My niche is people stuff. People stuff puts me at the bottom of the hierarchy here.

- What interests me? People. I loved doing the clinic because I spent every week building relationships, managing conflict, twisting arms, supporting crying clients, forseeing image problems for some of our more stressed out clients (one very pregnant woman tried to wear a tee that said "Boys are trouble" to court). Every week, it was like a little contest with myself "What can I get people to do for my client? What can I get my client to do for herself? How far can I push the judge?" It was more exciting than any job I've ever had.

- Do I hate my classes more or my classmates? I think classmates. Classes are a different stress. I hate watching my prof's faces light up while they discuss some off-the-wall application of some arcane legal principle and all I can think is "when's lunch?" They really, truly care and have a passion for the material. I don't. I'm just learning it so I can be part of the club. That makes me feel awful.

- Why do I want to join the club? I think I watched too many Jimmy Stewart movies. I'm not sure I deserve to be part of the club, though. If I graduate, I'll be responsible for people in very vulnerable positions in their lives. And I can barely even be bothered to read for class, let alone extrapolate from legal concepts the way the good students do. I'm worried that the legal profession doesn't deserve to have my lazy but inflicted on them.

- Are people trying to make me feel bad? I think they're just trying to let me know what's expected in this profession. That's legitimate. I only feel bad because I'm not measuring up to what's expected.

Does all this make sense? Because now that I've broken it down, I feel pretty bad.

stick it out.  it sounds like you are really interested in law, but are looking for excuses to give up because you are not a competitive person.  as long as you still love to learn, whatever the subject, whether you strive for A's or B's, you should stick with it.

Dizzy, I've been exactly where you are. (Although I actually like LOTR - the movies - and Harry Potter! )

Law school sucked. I was not motivated and I did not like the people or the classes. I didn't fit in with the competitive atmosphere, although I am competitive, and I didn't enjoy discussing the subject of law at every chance I got. Basically, I was as close to miserable in an academic setting as I can ever imagine myself being. And I'm a nerd so that tells you something.

I also loved my clinics and my hands-on experience classes. Those were the best. I think they should be required of all students in law school. That is actually more of a barometer for how you'll do in the world of law than your silly evidence classes. (Did I mention I did very poorly in my evidence class? And now I'm working in criminal law? Ha!)

But I stuck it out. I thought about quitting but the whole process is just so difficult that it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to give it up halfway through. I figured the J.D. at the end of the whole thing would be worth the three crappy years. And it is. I'm glad I have it.

Here's my advice: put on your game face. Screw the people you're surrounded by. They'll dissapate and you will find other people in your profession who share common interests and aren't as annoying as the law students you're surrounded by. Plus I think law school puts all this extra pressure on people and the worst parts of their personalities come out. Wait until you start studying for the Bar!! (just kidding - don't get scared)

You can do it Dizzy. Don't give up now. Get your degree and then worry about if you want to be a lawyer or not. Try it out for a year or so and you'll know if it's for you. If it's not, you can do all kinds of other things with a J.D. It's a very practical degree. And if you want to go into mediation? Great. Your J.D. will get you there. You don't even have to practice law to do mediations. You can, of course, but you don't have to.

Good luck, girl! PM me if you need to. I can sympathize 100%.

Oh and did I mention law school professors have no basis in the real legal world? Their opinions, aside from legal papers, mean next to nothing. They're mainly academic and very little practical. Screw them too.

Thanks for the support everyone. this board rocks, and I cannot believe how wonderful everyone has been, especially you Esquiress. So glad to "know" all of you. Well, I think I'm going to stay, just because I would always wonder later if I could have made it through. But I'm going to work really hard to find a job that I will like better than the typical firm job, where I won't fit in at all. Probably something in government.

Oh, and just another fish-out-of-water story about Dizzy's adventures in law school. Today,in a casual convesation, my professor said his wife was "snowed" under. And out pops from my mouth "Oh, for a second I thought you said she was "stoned," and that gave the converesation an entirely different character..."

He looked soooooooo horrified!

I WILL learn to behave professionallly here. I will, I will, I will... Wish me luck with that, and for finals!