STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

RE: Neo-Nazi propaganda--horrible!

blink · Coach

hmm. maybe when these girls become older teens, the press and negative attention they get will only encourage them to rebel from their parents like so many teens do anyway, meet new people who aren't racists, and have a moment of enlightenment that will break their ties to nazism.

let's hope.

-- Edited by lorelei at 12:06, 2005-11-03

tina242 · Kate Spade

JoceyBaby23 wrote:

tina242 wrote: You know what? I don't care that they're adorable....in fact, we act like how they look matters at all! I mean what if they were ugly? The fact of the matter is they're spreading hate...I mean sure they're young and easily influenced, but it's pretty sad that their message is getting put out there in the press just b/c they're freaking' cute. Ick. Sorry and not to attack I just hate hate. Hi Tina, I dont think that me or anyone else who commented on the girls appearance said so to cover the fact that they are being taught to spread hate. That is obviously wrong. But let's face it, most of us joined this forum to chat, get advice, and give opinions on fashion and health and beauty. We all want to look our best. The comments on appearance does not excuse their actions or behavior. They were just observations.. just like if you posted a picture of a pair of shoes.. I would respond saying if I liked them or didn't. And I also disagree with you that their message is spreading because they are cute. I think it is spreading because unfortunately, there are a lot of people in our country that feel the same way they do. AND because it is interesting news that girls so young have these "white supremist" views.. I know when I think of the KKK, I think of older, caucasian men set in their ways, ignorant of the blending world around them, not young children like these girls. Just my opinion..

I am sorry for my outburst, I just got angry (with racism, not anyone on here)...I didn't mean that anyone said their cuteness ok'd their message, of course not!! And I wasn't disagreeing with your post either. This stuff just gets me worked up. I apologize...

Of course there are (unfortunately) many people who share their views, which is why the message is spreading. There's a market, and there are many other bands that sing similar music. I also don't picture cute little girls as racists. It is, for lack of a better word, interesting. I blame their parents, not them. I blame racists, not their looks. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it. They are cute:

Here's why I said that the girls cuteness (and age) is playing a part in helping to spread their message (like, "Look such cute little girls with such a horrible point of view, how sad..."). I was wrong in implying that that's the reason they're in the press though.

"Twin pop stars with angelic looks are new face of racism"

"Prussian Blue, a "white power" band now recording its second album, is described as a sinister version of the Olsen Twins, the squeaky clean child actresses of the 1990s. It is attracting more and more fans among young white nationalists."

"...David Duke — the former presidential candidate, one-time Ku-Klux-Klan grand wizard and outspoken white supremacist — uses the twins to draw a crowd." (don't you think they draw a crowd better than a middle aged guy?)

This one's interesting: ..."these twin 13 yr. old girls, who are only as cute as the makeup they are wearing..."

Also interesting quote from one of the girls: "Our music isn't about hating anyone. It's about loving the one person who matters most of all: you." (Lamb Gaede)

And then this: "THE twins sit cross-legged in front of an immense television, transfixed by their video game. Lamb and Lynx Gaede seem typical 13-year-olds, fighting for the next go with the joystick. But the game is called Ethnic Cleansing - a video nasty where players try to kill as many black people as possible."

Do you see why I got angry?? Arrghh!

Bastet · Kate Spade

A video game called Ethnic Cleansing?! *headdesk* One can only hope that when (if??) they go to college, they meet people who are not racist bigots and learn from them. Seriously, child services should take those girls away. I read some of the lyrics to their songs and it was really sad to think that kids wrote them. (part of me secretly hopes that they go to college and turn into extremely liberal civil rights activists who use their former racist past to teach others not to hate.

)

Cricket · Gucci

In an earlier post, I said that these girls live in the town I grew up in and went to my school ( WAY after I did). I just re-read some of their posts and saw their last name. Their grandmother is a TEACHER at the school, and has been for probably 30 years. I hope she doesn't share their views.

lynnie · Chanel

just saw this post *gasped out loud during the whole thing*

espec. the new message with the fact that they play a game called "ethnic cleansing" OMG. OMG. OMG. So gross, and I do kinda agree that their cuteness helps them land all this press and makes us shocked by it even more. Not right or wrong, just saying. Def. brainwashed. SO GROSS. ahh.

Dixiegirl- i do agree with you about the "being proud to be white* thing. White people just can't do it, mostly because of our history and things like this. I think (or hope) *most* white people aren't hateful, aren't supremists, but can't really be openly proud about their race for fear of looking like they are racist. Thats sad to me as well.

ETA: do all-white communites actually exist? Like you aren't aloud to move in if you aren't white? My hometown is mostly white, but its not like you can't live there if you aren't white.

-- Edited by lynnie at 20:00, 2005-11-06

theotherjess · Chanel

Just saw the bit about the "Ethnic Cleansing" game. Holy crap. Why does this even exist??? Video games are bad enough, but seeing how many black people you can kill? Talk about not even trying to disguise the brainwashing. UGHH. That is wrong on SOOOO many levels.

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

The idea of the video game is rediculous! I can't believe it exists either!

I wonder who creates and distributes this stuff?

lynnie · Chanel

OMG, i researched them further. Look at this picture on their blog:

I had NO idea things like this existed. Their album is titled "blonde hair blue eyes"???!!!! This shirt is designed by a company called Aryan Wear. Here is their website:

http://www.prussianblue.net/index.htm

do these girls have any existance aside from being white??!!! This is seriously disturbing to me.

laken1 · Hermes

lynnie wrote:

j
ETA: do all-white communites actually exist? Like you aren't aloud to move in if you aren't white? My hometown is mostly white, but its not like you can't live there if you aren't white.-- Edited by lynnie at 20:00, 2005-11-06

Lynnie - I wondered the same thing - am I just ignorant that I didn't know that this still existed? That there are people that strive for strife as opposed to striving for true integration? I am so confused.

I refuse to go to any of those sites again - it fills me with hate & I just refuse to let that into my heart right now!!! These kinds of comments create OUTRAGE in me & I just don't like that.

From their (previous?) blog site......."If the antis have brought down the Official PB website, then it's probably time to realize that they're just going to keep doing it until we move to a host who is one of us."

kisa · Dooney & Bourke

I haven't read all of this thread, and by no means am I saying that this is right, but I don't really feel all the outraged about this. Admittedly it's kind of weird that these children are singing these songs. (It's pretty obvious they didn't write the lyrics) I don't find that I as a white person in my day to day life discriminate against other races, but I feel discriminated against from time to time. Anyways I draw a parallel between Prussian Blue lyrics and Public Enemy lyrics. Example:

"Elvis was a hero to most(3x)
But he never meant, shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
Make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be"

honey · Gucci

i've been reading this thread...what bothers me most is all the publicity they've gotten. not that we should be ignorant to the fact that hate exists, but imo publicizing them in this manner (not the thread) but the media attention only further's their objectives. prior to the hoopla they were just two ignorant little girls, now they've been given a platform to spread there propaganda. i read a few days that magazines were engaged in a bidding war to interview them, and i believe they're going to be interviewed in seventeen.

also (and i don't mean this as a personal attack), but it most be lovely to live in a world where you don't realize this sort of thing exists. racism (whether blatant or subtle) is part of my reality.

mclantern · Nine West

Kisa I strongly disagree with your statement: "Anyways I draw a parallel between Prussian Blue lyrics and Public Enemy lyrics." African Americans are discriminated against on a daily bases. Public Enemies lyrics were about impowering themselves as a subordinate group in society, to fight the status given to them by a dominant group who continues to oppress them. The only people opprerssing those two little girls are their parents and communtiy who are allowing them to hate for no reason.

*Sorry I'm just really passionate about social issues.*

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

honey wrote:

i've been reading this thread...what bothers me most is all the publicity they've gotten. not that we should be ignorant to the fact that hate exists, but imo publicizing them in this manner (not the thread) but the media attention only further's their objectives. prior to the hoopla they were just two ignorant little girls, now they've been given a platform to spread there propaganda. i read a few days that magazines were engaged in a bidding war to interview them, and i believe they're going to be interviewed in seventeen. also (and i don't mean this as a personal attack), but it most be lovely to live in a world where you don't realize this sort of thing exists. racism (whether blatant or subtle) is part of my reality.

Remember that old saying "any press is good press" This is what is happening. Now closet racist parents are going to be aware of this music and have an outlet to spread it to their children- and it seems ok to the child because someone else it doing it.

Its ok to celebrate your race, however it is not ok to put someone else's down while doing so. The reason to celebrate someone's race is because there are many others! If there was 1 race, no one could celebrate a difference. And how boring would that be!

ayo · Coach

and now let the church say Amen

honey wrote:

also (and i don't mean this as a personal attack), but it most be lovely to live in a world where you don't realize this sort of thing exists. racism (whether blatant or subtle) is part of my reality.

kisa · Dooney & Bourke

Mclantern: I have to say that although I agree with parts of your statement I would say that discrimination against blacks has become extremely taboo, whereas discrimination against whites, and white stereotypes, although trivial, are evident in the media, especially the entertainment industry, and have even become somewhat of a joke.
To clarify before the new lyrics, I by no means think all black people are like this, I'm just sick of people thinking that only whites can be racist.

Here's a more direct song, not by public enemy:

"Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let's go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain't afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground"

However I do not live in the states, and I have noticed that you do not have any minority politicians whereas, we have minority politicians and even a Haitian governer general.

-- Edited by kisa at 00:21, 2005-11-22

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

kisa wrote:

However I do not live in the states, and I have noticed that you do not have any minority politicians whereas, we have minority politicians and even a Haitian governer general. -- Edited by kisa at 00:21, 2005-11-22

WTF? I can't decide whether to be offended by this or just laugh because it is such a stupid thing to say. I mean, what does it even have to do with the topic of the post? Inside joke? What am I missing?

ETA: It's just a strange comment to make because it so obviously incorrect. If she had said, "the US doesn't have enough minority politicians," or "the US doesn't have very many minority politicians," I would totally agree. If she had said, "only about 15% of american elected officials are minorities whereas in Canada it is about 30%," I would have said, "wow, yet another reason I have to admire Canada." But what she wrote was, "I've noticed you don't have any minority politicians, whereas we do," which is just asinine because of COURSE we do. If you don't know who Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Barack Obama and Alberto Gonzales are then I don't think you know enough about American politics to make a statement like that.

That being said, it depresses me that those are the only current, really prominent minority politicians I can think of off the top of my head.

-- Edited by sephorablue at 23:04, 2005-11-22

lynnie · Chanel

sephorablue wrote:

kisa wrote: However I do not live in the states, and I have noticed that you do not have any minority politicians whereas, we have minority politicians and even a Haitian governer general. -- Edited by kisa at 00:21, 2005-11-22 WTF? I can't decide whether to be offended by this or just laugh because it is such a stupid thing to say. I mean, what does it even have to do with the topic of the post? Inside joke? What am I missing?

sb- I dont think kisa was trying to insult the us, and honestly, i have no idea what the percentage of minorities for US politicians- i'm guessing kind of low? Anyway, I can't speak for Canada, but I do think that the lyrics Kisa posted might sound different if posted in a country that doesn't really have a minority that is oppressed. I think we accept these lyrics here because minorities are still being pretty opressed- my take on these violent lyrics is that they are more of a "fight for our rights, lets take them down so we can earn the spot we deserve" kind of thing. However, if taken at face value, they are extremely brutal and violent and racist as well.

honey · Gucci

kisa wrote:

Mclantern: I have to say that although I agree with parts of your statement I would say that discrimination against blacks has become extremely taboo, whereas discrimination against whites, and white stereotypes, although trivial, are evident in the media, especially the entertainment industry, and have even become somewhat of a joke. To clarify before the new lyrics, I by no means think all black people are like this, I'm just sick of people thinking that only whites can be racist. Here's a more direct song, not by public enemy: "Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let's go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain't afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground" However I do not live in the states, and I have noticed that you do not have any minority politicians whereas, we have minority politicians and even a Haitian governer general. -- Edited by kisa at 00:21, 2005-11-22

where to begin... for starters, i really don't think you can use these lyrics to bolster your argument. i did a quick google search and these lyrics are from a song by a group called menace clan. while i am by no means an expert on rap music, i consider myself reasonably knowledgeable, and can comfortably say that this group never enjoyed any mainstream, or even underground popularity and/or notoriety. so it's not like they've been out there spewing hatred and americans are turning a blind eye b/c they're black and black people can say whaterver. in many ways they're the black equivalent of prussian blue, except they're not cute little girls. sorry to bring up that argument again, but in this case in makes sense b/c part of the fascination with prussian blue seems to stem from the fact that their message seems to counter their image.

the only notable part of menace clan is bushwick bill, who was/is a member of ghetto boys (i feel like they're defunct, but not entirely sure) the point of this being ghetto boys aren't even that much part of mainstream american consciousness with the exception of pretty much one "hit" song. (i use that term very loosely.) and if this were a real time argument i would challenge you to name that song, but since it's not, and you can google them i won't bother.

while i don''t disagree with your argument about white stereotypes, i don't think it's valid in this context. all sorts of stereotypes abound in pop culture, and are usually used as a basis for humor b/c they're easy to understand whether it's white people or black people, or any other easily identifiable group. when people think of hip-hop listeners they usually think of someone like diddy or nelly, the stereotypical image of someone who lives a ridiculously lavish lifestyle and is loaded down with bling. i listen to hip-hop, i don't lead a lavish lifestyle andi have no bling. another excellent example of this is the way gay people, especially men are portrayed in the media.will & grace is ridiculously popular, but much of it's humor is based on a outdated stereotype of a, for lack of a better term "flaming queen" like jack's character. however, most gay people aren't like that. the point being that all sorts of stereotypes abound and people accept/don't bother to challenge them, so it's not like white people as a whole are particularly victimized.

as far as your references to public enemy. when they first came out they were *extremely* controversial, as were many artists of that nature (nwa & ice-t come to mind) who had lyrics that challenged the status quo of american society. now it all seems mundane b/c it's not as "revolutionary" but at the time it wasn't just accepted by mainstream society.

lastly there are lots of minority politicians in the us, (not that there isn't room for more). one of the most powerful people in the country, the national security advisor is a black woman. so that's a moot point. i will also say that your comment kind of rings of the whole "i'm not racist i have a color tv" sentiment. admittedly i don't know much about canada and it's history (nor would i call canada or canadians racist as a whole b/c that's just ludicrous), but will say that having a haitian governor general does not exempt a whole country.

eta: i'm a dodo, condi is the national security advisor, not the secretary of defense.

-- Edited by honey at 21:43, 2005-11-22

-- Edited by honey at 11:11, 2005-11-23

trixie · Kenneth Cole

Interesting blurb from tvguide.com this morning. I'm a little annoyed, and a bit shocked, that Teen People would want to do a story on these girls.

THE WHITE STUFF: Teen People has dumped a profile on Prussian Blue, aka twin songbirds Lynx and Lamb Gaede, after it came to light that a staffer had made unauthorized assurances that the words "hate," "supremacist" and "Nazi" would not be used in the write-up on the Hitler-heiling harmonizers, the New York Daily News reports. To fill the space, Teen People will run an article on Ashlee Simpson, which will avoid the words "nails," "on" and "chalkboard."