STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

I'm embarrassed too...

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

I agree with much of what you are saying. I wish we could say that the victims are coming together to help each other and are staying strong in this difficult time.. but unfortunately, this doesnt seem to be an accurate statement right now.

Desparate times do call for desparate measures though.

I can not put myself in their place and I dont know how they feel right now.. But I am pretty certain, I wouldnt be looting electronics and shooting at police.

dc · Dooney & Bourke

Well, I do see your point, but you might read the interview with the NO mayor for the clarification on some of the people's motivations. The fact is, in the worse circumstances, people desperate for survival do not give a shit what anyone thinks - they are just sad, angry, helpless. Really really helpless. They have been given no reason to believe anyone is gonig to help them. They know nothing and are being told nothing. It's been 5 days now. Imagine how you'd feel.

And yes, there are criminals in New Orleans. That is no secret. Floodwaters didn't make everyone in town a Saint - just made it easy for bad people to show their worst side. But please do not discount the suffering of thousands because of the publicity that a few bad apples are given due to the sensational nature of their actions. And to some degree, it's the media that is embarrassing us, because they will always focus on what is ugliest. There are a lot of good people working very hard to help, and there are many good people trapped in the waters, some dead or dying. Let's not forget that.

People have been evacuated from their homes only to be dropped in median strips or by the side of the road, or that people have been left at the convention center with absolutely no authority figure telling them what is going on or what to expect, basically feeling completely abandoned, I can understand how they feel. They have been there for days, with people dying, with nobody coming to their aid. Feces and dead bodies in the street. Dead bodies floating around not getting collected. 90+ degree temperatures (have you been in NO in the summer - jesusgod it's miserable... add to that squalid conditions and hopelessness). Would you be saying, "Excuse me, please hand me a moist towelette?" No. You'd be pissed to high hell. The system failed these people. They are not animals. It was no secret that New Orleans has a huge poor population- people who couldn't get out of the city, were most likely poorly informed about what might happen, and had to make an awful choice - weighing the risks of staying (not realizing how bad it would be) with having absolutely nowhere to go and no way to get there.

If I were a young poor mom with kids to feed, no car, no money, being forced to sleep and defecate in the streets because I had no way out or wasn't educated enough to understand the possible impact, I'd be so confused and crushed and horrified. These people are watching buses and trucks go by and ignore them. Choppers fly overhead and ignore them. Nobody is tellnig them anything. They do not have the access to news that we do. I'd scream and cry and wonder how and why I'd been so abandoned. Frankly, the system failed these people and they have EVERY right to demand food and aid - and every right to be pissed that people thought so little of New Orleans before this happened that proper funds were not allocated and preparations made. They KNEW people would stay. There have been models done that showed everything that has happened. Some people might have wittingly made the wrong choice. Many of them have been continuously failed by the system and now here they are.

-- Edited by dc at 12:51, 2005-09-02

-- Edited by dc at 12:53, 2005-09-02

Andrea Julia · Coach

I totally agree that I would not be shooting and looting, but I don't at all feel embarrassed about the people that are demanding food and saying "come and get my family." What else are you supposed to do when you have lost everything and the potential to lose your loved ones still exists? These people are fighting to survive. They are probably embarrassed for themselves as well, but surviving and helping your family survive is always going to take precedence over how you look to the general public.

kenzie · Chanel

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be looting or shooting either, but I'd be pretty damn upset if I were those people. I just can't even imagine what they are feeling. I'm sure they are feeling pretty hopeless and hope is a dangerous thing to lose.

On a side note, my mom was watching the news and they showed a story about a little boy who was getting on a bus holding his little dog. And they told him he couldn't take the little dog. They took it from him and threw it out of the bus. That poor little boy and his dog! He's probably lost everything he had and that little dog was all that was left and they took that, too. Not to mention cruelty to animals. I was so sad when I heard that.

Maddie · Coach

I think the difference between victims of Katrina and victims of the tsunami is that Americans are used to recieving help from the government and have higher expectations than South Asians. In South Asia there was no precedent of your government stepping in and helping you, whereas in the US it is taken for granted. I think it's this difference in attitude that's led to the difference in response. South Asians would be more likely to hope for aid from NGOs than expect aid from the government.

One thing that's kind of irritated me is the attitude of, "I never thought this would happen in the US! It's like a third world country!" I know people are just traumatized, but to me those statements have undertones of, "It's ok if it happens to them, but just not me." I doubt this will wake people up to the situation that some people around the world live in every day, but it would be nice if it did.

kenzie · Chanel

Maddie wrote:

One thing that's kind of irritated me is the attitude of, "I never thought this would happen in the US! It's like a third world country!" I know people are just traumatized, but to me those statements have undertones of, "It's ok if it happens to them, but just not me." I doubt this will wake people up to the situation that some people around the world live in every day, but it would be nice if it did.

I would like to state that your comment about 'undertones' is absolutely untrue (at least for me). Just b/c I never expected something like this to happen here doesn't mean that I think that it's okay for it to happen somewhere else. I'm not sure how that connection was made. It kind of makes me mad. It's not okay if it happens to anyone, whether they're in the US or in a third world country. I most definitely do not have an elitist attitude and I've done plenty of volunteer work to help where I can.

The point is, the US is NOT a third world country, so you would think that something like this could be handled a little more efficiently.

Sorry, but that statement has me really, really fired up.

-- Edited by NylaBelle at 14:43, 2005-09-02

Maddie · Coach

Sorry, I was just going in to rephrase that because as I read it I realized it sounded harsher than I meant. I think you are absolutely right that because this is a first world country we should absolutely be dealing with this better. No question about that. But just in terms of the initial destruction, that can happen anywhere, regardless of how developed a country is. I guess I just find it to be a somewhat insensitive statement. Along the same lines of someone saying, "I would expect this to happen in Harlem, not in the Upper East Side!"

kenzie · Chanel

Maddie wrote:

Sorry, I was just going in to rephrase that because as I read it I realized it sounded harsher than I meant. I think you are absolutely right that because this is a first world country we should absolutely be dealing with this better. No question about that. But just in terms of the initial destruction, that can happen anywhere, regardless of how developed a country is. I guess I just find it to be a somewhat insensitive statement. Along the same lines of someone saying, "I would expect this to happen in Harlem, not in the Upper East Side!"

Yes, you are right about destruction happening anywhere. When I say that I never expected this to happen in the US, I wasn't referring to the initial catastrophe, I was referring to the inability to handle the aftermath. I do see your point now.

No hard feelings.

NCshopper · Hermes

I'm embarrassed that the US was so ill prepared for this kind of disaster, but not at all embarrassed about the way people are acting.

I've seen HORRIFYING images the past few days on the news and in the papers. Truly awful things are happening there. Pregnant ladies about ready to give birth, teeny tiny babies that desperately need water. It's hard to imagine how I would act as a parent in a situation like this, but I believe truly the worst in me would come out. I'd like to think that's not the case and that I'd somehow be "above it," but I'm pretty sure I'd do whatever it took to save my kids. I doubt I'd be shooting at helicopters and whatnot, because it doesn't seem like that would help the situation at all. But I'd be pissed as hell and confused and desperate, which would not lead to a good situation.

Yes, those people should have evacuated when they were told to, and yes, the government should have done a better job of preparing for this, but the reality now is that these poor people are in a horrible situation, and NO ONE, not even the most hardened criminal, deserves this. I really hope it gets resolved soon.

Misty · Dooney & Bourke

I'm not embarrassed either. The victims of Katrina have been stripped of their humanity, and have no choice but to resort to animalistic behavior. It's about survival and their basic needs are not being met, things we take for granted like having food, water, shelter, A/C. It's hotter than Hades down there, and that's certainly not going to improve anyone's disposition, so those factors combined make for basically human bombs about to go off at any moment. I'm a parent too, and though I wouldn't shoot at helicopters, etc., I would do anything in my power to help my family.

That said, people are starting to arrive here. The ARC doesn't want people showing up with supplies for the reasons stated above, but they have estimated that 40-50,000 victims will be arriving in the cities of Dallas, Houston and San Antonio over the course of the next few weeks. People just want to help in anyway they can. It does warm my heart to see so many people being selfless and trying to help their fellow man. We need to be united in our efforts, and prayers also help.

God Bless America

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

I stand by being embarrassed by peoples' behavior. We hear complaints that they are not receiving food/aid/etc, but what do people expect when they are shooting at the helicopters, police, and national guard who are coming to help? Helicopters coming to distribute food haven't been able to land because people mob the helicopter. I think that if people in famine-struck parts of Africa are able to line up in food distribution lines with attacking the people bringing the food, people in the US should be able to manage the same.

I enjoy living in the US, and wouldn't want to live anywhere permanently except Calfornia. But I think that the uber-pride that Americans tend to display is ridiculous when things like this disaster show the huge divides between rich and poor, the weaknesses in our disaster response, and just generally show that we are very "un-superpower" -like. I can only hope that people will see the reports, and realize that we could do with a little more solidarity. Instead of shooting at the helicopters coming to airlift people to hospitals, maybe people could start lending a hand to those coming to help.

joy0302 · Kate Spade

I am not embarrassed by the fact that these people are looting grocery stores and taking food and water, because anyone would do that to survive. I am completely embarrassed that they are shooting at the people that are trying to help them, raping women in the shelters, stealing electronics(where are you going to plug them in!!!) and all of the horrific other images I have been seeing.

I agree that these people have not been helped as fast as I would have expected from our country and I am very upset by that, but I agree with dc, floodwaters did not make everyone a saint. There was a VERY high crime rate in NO before the storm. It was already a dangerous place to visit and the storm just made it that much more so. It is just a shame that these criminals held up the progress for help to get to the decent people.

This entire situation really makes me worry about what would happen if we had a nuclear attack or some other God forbidden thing happen to our countr. We can get food to Baghdad where there is a war going on, but it takes four days to get major help in Louisiana. That is really sad to me.

dc · Dooney & Bourke

gingembre1 wrote:

I stand by being embarrassed by peoples' behavior. We hear complaints that they are not receiving food/aid/etc, but what do people expect when they are shooting at the helicopters, police, and national guard who are coming to help? Helicopters coming to distribute food haven't been able to land because people mob the helicopter. I think that if people in famine-struck parts of Africa are able to line up in food distribution lines with attacking the people bringing the food, people in the US should be able to manage the same.
I enjoy living in the US, and wouldn't want to live anywhere permanently except Calfornia. But I think that the uber-pride that Americans tend to display is ridiculous when things like this disaster show the huge divides between rich and poor, the weaknesses in our disaster response, and just generally show that we are very "un-superpower" -like. I can only hope that people will see the reports, and realize that we could do with a little more solidarity. Instead of shooting at the helicopters coming to airlift people to hospitals, maybe people could start lending a hand to those coming to help.

Yes, gimgembre, but the point I and others are trying to make is while those specific people are behaving despicably, they don't represent the tens of thousands of people who are waiting in frustration and NOT shooting at anyone. Why punish thousands for the acts of a few? The divide between rich and poor is one thing - don't forget to make the distinction between poor people and criminals as well. As I said, MOST people are not looting or shooting. How can you say "what do they expect" when they are as much victims of the looting and shooting as anyone else?

Also, the difference between people in famine-stricken African countries (not all African countries, obviously) and here is that this is not a third world country. In third world countries, people are not led to believe that their govt owes them anything (not that they are not owed anything, but here, as taxpayers and people with consitutionally granted rights, they are well within those rights to believe they are owed something because, well, they are). We are the wealthiest country on the planet, and these people were failed, period. Maybe the first day or two lining up patiently might have been expected. But on day 5, I'd be crying and pissed.

You are right that the response has been very un-superpowerlike. And yes, misplaced pride is silly - but don't be embarassed by the victims, 90% of whom are just trying to survive and not hurting anyone. However, I'll be the first to agree that the response has been sorely lacking and this is no time for platitudes. I'd just save the critique for those in power, and NOT cast blame on victims who for the most part are innocent.

-- Edited by dc at 21:59, 2005-09-02