STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

halleybird · Hermes

never mind.

janey831 · Kate Spade

RE: I hate ignorant kids. (A spinoff)

theotherjess · Chanel

What the heck????

honey · Gucci

gosh, how could i have forgetten to send the thank you note for slavery. guess i'll have to add that to my to do list.

eta: the really sad thing is i can actually understand (not justify) the reasoning behind that statement. if you're not from africa, all you see of africa is images of war, aids, and faminine. and while those things do exist, africa is a continent -- a fact that many people tend to forget. unless you've been, or know someone from the more well to do parts of africa, you'd never realize that there is an abundance of wealth too. yeah the wealth is more concentrated (but that's a whole other post) but it does exist.

-- Edited by honey at 21:02, 2005-08-16

blubirde · Chanel

honey wrote:

gosh, how could i have forgetten to send the thank you note for slavery. guess i'll have to add that to my to do list.
e\

serious topic, i know, but that was damn funny!

once in 5th or 6th grade or something we were discussing slavery and the teacher was asking us what we thought about it. one kid said maybe it was a better life to be a slave than to be a free black and have to put up with all the hatred. of course that is an incorrect and ignorant statement but no one in the class took offense. even the teacher said it was an interesting opinion and used it to facilitate discussion in the class.

the end result was that (i think) everyone felt slavery was one of the most horrible facets of american life but the kid who said that wasn't racist or anything, just a kid exploring different ideas.

now, to be fair, the difference is that this was a what? a 10 year-old vs. a 17 year-old and someone that old really should know better. the thing that's the most surprising is that no one in the class said anything. i can't believe it really. good for you halleybird for lecturing those kids - they really need it.

teachers like you give, well, teachers like you a good name.

blink · Coach

It's not surprising, and a good comeback to that kid's thoughtless remark would be, "ok, and what a horrendous cost that so-called favor came!"

You shouldn't have attacked his statement, he was "trying" to think about something serious, even if he doesn't really get it. You kind of have to just let these things be said and get to the bottom of what is really meant by it, because if you don't, there is no opportunity to encourage the kid to think deeper than that.

Remember that most people that age think concretely, they aren't even able to understand nuance until around age 19 (my aunt is an expert in linguistics tells me this) and these days there are plenty of adults who still don't. It's not totally their fault, their brain is wired differently at this age, but you can help them think about serious issues like slavery and human indignity with more empathy. This is probably why there aren't a lot of Philosophy heavy classes in high school.

Treat these kind of so-called ignorant comments as an opportunity to really be a memorable teacher and find a way to provoke better introspection from students, it's for the greater good, I really doubt the kid meant anything evil by his comment.

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

I have to reply to this. Unfortunately those kids were heavily influenced by the parents or friends parents that feel that way. Hopefully these children will soon have a mind of their own when they leave high school and realize that

a. America is not necessarily the best country in the world and we should not have this ego that we have developed

b. that people that are different bring color into our lives!

It kills me to think that my mother's god child, a giggly, super happy, fun and incredibly smart child has cerebral palsy and will have gradually worse problems with his motor skills. This child who is amazing is going to endure the problem of being different (being picked on and such). And I can't stand to think of the day that he will stop being giggly! Ugh!

jen · Kate Spade

I'v heard lots of statements like that before. One that sticks in my head is when a kid said: "Yeah, slavery was horrible and our punishment for it is now we have to live with black people."

I think that kid in your class really separated the time of slavery and now. He does not see that the reason we've had years and years of racism in this country is because of our history of slavery(of creating a separation of races). Other countries with out a history of enslaving blacks do not have the type of racism that the U.S has. But even though his statement was outta line, I can almost see his point of view-he's not proud of slavery but he now sees that african-americans are happy and just as much as a part of society as white people instead of living in the AIDS stricken Africa. This is his pov, not mine, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. I'm a libra-I have to see both sides!

Sunshinegirl · Kate Spade

Halleybird,

i was not there so it is hard to comment but if that is really what the child verbalized, i really do not believe that he was making an inappropriate comment or atleast he did not intend for it to be taken wrong. Look at what he observes in the media on a daily basis. He is flooded with images of famine, war, aids etc.. He probably rationalizes that these are situations that these are innocent people living desparing lives that they have no control of while here in the united states (and in other countries) there are opportunities to have a life with promise and hope. Again, it's just a thought. I have no idea what he was thinking but this could be one way he perceives the situation.

I think Lorelei makes some very valid points.

Just my opinion. Again, i was not present so it's hard to say more.

halleybird · Hermes

.

-- Edited by halleybird at 23:36, 2005-08-17

Elle · Hermes

halleybird wrote:

I do realize that he's a kid, and that it's his opinion. But I found it extremely upsetting, and I do think it's inappropriate for someone who is almost an adult to think that way. It's one thing if a third-grader has that opinion, but a child who, by this age, has been exposed to the history of slavery and racism should not think that way. And, if he does, he should know better than to voice it, especially in front of classmates who may have had ancestors who went through that ordeal. Also, you guys, I didn't punish him for saying what he said. I did raise my voice, though, and I did say that I found his opinion inappropriate and racist. I am sorry, but I am not going to say, "oh, what an interesting opinion!" I believe that part of the reason racism persists in this country is because tiny nuances like these are tolerated. JMHO, though -- you guys are certainly entitled to believe that I shouldn't have said what I did.

I have to say that I totally agree with your sentiments and your reaction to his comments. A 17 year old, while maybe not legally an adult, is still a human being and therefore cabable of intelligent thoughts and behavior. Even if his comment was meant offhandedly, he needs to know the errors in his statement! Kids who think this way today will be running our country and teaching our children in the very near future - it's scary to think that ANYONE, no matter how young, old, uneducated, whathaveyou, still believes this way. If no one were ever to call him on it, what is stopping those outdated beliefs from becoming rampant all over again?

cakeeater · Nine West

Based on what you have told us, I agree with what lorelei said above. I have to say I think it was inappropriate of you to raise your voice and go "off on" a student, who, while misinformed, was simply voicing his opinion in an unmalicious manner in a setting where discussion and differences in opinion are usually valued. It is sad that kids grow up in an ignorant environment and say ignorant things, but it is even more sad when a teacher forces their own opinions (even if they are right) onto students rather than encouraging them to explore their opinions and other points of views. I think it even more inappropriate that you as a teacher called a student racist, which in any setting is inflamatory and insulting.

And why should any student in the class show their own feelings about this ignorant student's statement, when you "went off on him" for voicing an opinion? How would they know that what they have to say would not elicit a similar response from you?

Certainly, you should not have let the comment slide, but the way you handled it is inappropriate. Yes he's 17, almost an adult, can drive, and probably can find a way to get drunk off his ass, but how many of us had stupid opinions when we were 17? And how many of those stupid opinions changed after you LEARNED more of the topic and heard different opinions? You didn't have to choose b/w the two extremes of "what an interesting comment" and going "off on him." You could have said, "Really? Does anyone in the class have a differing opinion?" or something to that effect.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your sentiments on the whole issue, and I would have probably said the same thing if someone made a comment like that to me on a street somewhere. But this wasn't some random comment by an ignorant friend on the streets, it was a comment made by an ignorant student in a classroom.

-- Edited by cakeeater at 22:43, 2005-08-17

halleybird · Hermes

RE: never mind.

jen · Kate Spade

I think HB was right to defend her side of the the issue too. If the student can voice his opinion, she can voice hers. I'm a future teacher and it's their JOB to correct/discuss with/teach students!

blubirde · Chanel

Okay Halleybird, you don't want to have to defend yourself. Fine. I'll defend you.

I find it appalling that people would criticize a teacher for calling a student out on inappropriate statements in the classroom. (And for anyone who wonders whether or not the statement was inappropriate, get a brain. It was. It was awful and horrible and the black students in that classroom, or the white ones, do NOT need to here from some ignorant little f**k that they're lucky they have food on their plate and don't have AIDS. Give me a break. Whatever. I'm Irish. No one in their right mind would even think to tell me how lucky I am I'm over "here" instead of having to deal with IRA terrorism. That's unfathomable.)

So thank you halleybird for being first and foremost a good person, second for being a good teacher, and third for caring enough about your students to try and make sure they leave your classroom a little better than when they came in it.

I'm sorry if this is harsh but I think it's horrible that people on this board are criticizing halleybird and making her feel like she has to defend herself in this situation. She doesn't. We're all grown-ups here and if you have an opposing opinion, fine. Don't make the person who originally posted feel bad and uncomfortable because you can't think of a way to express it nicely.

Okay, I'm done. And I apologize if I offended but I'm a bit ticked off right now. Maybe I'll read this tomorrow and repent but until then...

cakeeater · Nine West

It is clear that I offended some people, and for that I want to apologize -- I could have worded things better. I didn't have a problem with halleybird letting the student know he was wrong in what he said, I just disagreed with the way she handled it. It was not my intention to attack her personally, but reading my post now, I can see that it can come across that way, and not as constructive criticism.

So Halleybird, I am sorry if you felt I was attacking you, and I also apologize for misreading your post about calling the student racist.

-- Edited by cakeeater at 00:36, 2005-08-18

Escrime · Kate Spade

blubirde wrote:

Okay Halleybird, you don't want to have to defend yourself. Fine. I'll defend you. I find it appalling that people would criticize a teacher for calling a student out on inappropriate statements in the classroom. (And for anyone who wonders whether or not the statement was inappropriate, get a brain. It was. It was awful and horrible and the black students in that classroom, or the white ones, do NOT need to here from some ignorant little f**k that they're lucky they have food on their plate and don't have AIDS. Give me a break. Whatever. I'm Irish. No one in their right mind would even think to tell me how lucky I am I'm over "here" instead of having to deal with IRA terrorism. That's unfathomable.) So thank you halleybird for being first and foremost a good person, second for being a good teacher, and third for caring enough about your students to try and make sure they leave your classroom a little better than when they came in it. I'm sorry if this is harsh but I think it's horrible that people on this board are criticizing halleybird and making her feel like she has to defend herself in this situation. She doesn't. We're all grown-ups here and if you have an opposing opinion, fine. Don't make the person who originally posted feel bad and uncomfortable because you can't think of a way to express it nicely. Okay, I'm done. And I apologize if I offended but I'm a bit ticked off right now. Maybe I'll read this tomorrow and repent but until then...

I couldn't have said it better myself, blubirde. I honestly feel there was no other appropriate response, and that HB did what she was supposed to do as a teacher.

atlgirl · Gucci

Halleybird I'm sorry you decided to edit this, but can understand your reasons for doing so. FWIW I believe you absolutely did the right thing as a teacher. I know some teachers would have just let that slide but you stood up to it and confronted it - IMO racism is no different if the person doesn't realize they're being racist - so kudos to you for pointing it out to this student (and you don't know how many *other* students internalized your message, so even more than just the one may have benefitted).

I hope you are not questioning yourself or your teaching skills after being told what you should and shouldn't do here - (which IMO is out of line) you are a fine teacher and obviously care a great deal about your students and about educating them! *hugs*

honey · Gucci

atlgirl wrote:

Halleybird I'm sorry you decided to edit this, but can understand your reasons for doing so. FWIW I believe you absolutely did the right thing as a teacher. I know some teachers would have just let that slide but you stood up to it and confronted it - IMO racism is no different if the person doesn't realize they're being racist - so kudos to you for pointing it out to this student (and you don't know how many *other* students internalized your message, so even more than just the one may have benefitted). I hope you are not questioning yourself or your teaching skills after being told what you should and shouldn't do here - (which IMO is out of line) you are a fine teacher and obviously care a great deal about your students and about educating them! *hugs*

ditto.

i guess for some people it's really easy to say "but look how 'far' we've come." but for me personally, it's appalling and quite sad to think that when my mother was my age she had to struggle (in the most literal sense of the word) to exercise her most fundamental constitutional rights.

blink · Coach

hmm, this got outta control. Hal, you are a great teacher because you care about this kids opinion about his world, I just PM'd you with more.