STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

JMR · Dooney & Bourke

RE: I don't know if a baby is right for me

laken1 · Hermes

esquiress wrote:

itsapinkthing, thank you so much. your story brought tears to my eyes!  let me chime in with my feeliings on it all:
i've always wanted children, specifically a daughter. i don't know why, but there's never ever been a question in my mind about it.  i've been picking out names for my hypothetical daughter since i was 13--no joke. for a while, i kept a diary of all the things i'd want to tell her and i wanted to memorialize my feelings so that when she was 10, or 15 or 20 or whatever, i could read my diary to remember how i felt at that age.  and i kind of live my life so that if and when my daughter asks me about the choices i made, i'll be able answer honestly and be a good example. i sometimes daydream about how i'll raise her, from little things like what she'll wear to big things like what answers i'll give to really tough questions.
i don't know if i'll ever have a child since it's not really up to me, you know? who knows if i'll meet someone i want to have a child with? or if i'll be young enough by the time that happens for it to be a possibility? i guess only time will tell.  if i'm not blessed with a child, i know that i can still have a fulfilling life...but...a part of me will probably always mourn her absence.

WOW - your post brought tears to my eyes. Further proof that some people are born to be mothers.....

bex · Chanel

can i just say what a wonderful post this is... and how much i've learned from some of the ladies here by reading this.

i used to feel super guilty about not wanting children. Like DC, i don't want to carry the child, have stretch marks, breast feed- any of it. i feel NO maternal instinct at all. but reading your posts made me realize i am not alone and i am not selfish in my ways. in other words, you brought me some peace with this subject today.

thanks.

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

you guys are so amazing. i haven't even read all the way through this post yet because I'm so excited I have to respond. I'm so, so, so happy to hear from other women who feel the same way!

Laken--I TOTALLY agree with this: "I think it's more selfish for me to have a baby because I think other people expect me to, but then to resent it than to just admit I'm too selfish to do it!"

And Detroit, with this: "I personally feel it's selfish to have a child - most people I have encountered have children for self fulfilling reasons, i.e. someone who will take care of them when they get older, as an accomplishment or trophy, just because that's what you're supposed to do (societal/family expectations), someone to love that will love you back, a child that acts as a second chance success for the parent (stage mom, sports father): all self fulfilling motivations. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say 'I want to have a baby as a product of my love for my mate, to be able to share our love with the child and nurture it to be a happy person."

I get utterly, utterly infuriated when I see people pushing their children into things just because they themselves want it. One of my good friends has a neighbor who has already decided that his children, who are like six and three, are going to go to MIT and become engineers because nothing else is acceptable to him. And while his intentions are good, I cannot imagine a more stifling, oppressive, miserable environment for those kids to grow up in without their actually being abused! How DARE he, how DARE he try to control them like that? How dare he try to set a course for their lives that doesn't take into account their actual individual personalities and talents? I want to scream just thinking about it.

I also get annoyed by this belief people sometimes have that their kids "owe" them something. Nobody's kids owe them ANYTHING! They didn't have a choice in the matter! The audacity of someone, to deliberately create an unknowing new life and then tell that child later on that it "owes" time, or care, or money, or whatever... no. Just no.

Oh god, and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who doesn't want to go through pregnancy and nursing. I think the only person I've told that to is my best best friend because I know she feels the same way. It's funny too, because not only do I feel guilty for having that feeling, then I resent the fact that I feel guilty! But I'll admit it to you guys... I am vain... I've already got a hangup about my small boobs, I really don't think I could take it if, after breast-feeding, they turned into flat, limp little things. Cause one thing I sure as hell wouldn't do, if I ever had kids, would be to pop $10,000 worth of saline into my boobs instead of into those kids' tuition funds!

jacL · Coach

I have the same worry, but for a completely different reason. I definately want kids, but not in the near future. I worry that I will never be a good mother because I have my own mother to look up to. I seriously believe I was blessed with the best mother ever. She has happily and willingly put her children first and foremost in her life, both while we were growing up and afterwards. She has lived her whole life for her children and been so happy doing it. I want to be the same kind of mother, but I don't think I could ever be selfless enough. I know my mother's largest aspiration in life was to be a mother, and I don't know if I can say that. It scares me sometimes that I won't be as good of a mother as she was and is. I don't think about it too much because I don't even want to have children for at least four or five years, but it is always in the back of my mind.

Karina · Chanel

Wow.. ok... some of the responses here kind of surprise and upset me.. thankfully the people who don't want to be mothers realize that, and don't give into pressure from society and get into something they may regret later. Yes, being a mother means you have to give up a lot of yourself - including your body, your personality, your wallet LOL ...

I can't "pick up and go" anymore (actually, it was easier to do that with Chris, but now harder with Chris and a newborn), not being able to travel and go out as often as we used to is not fun, being pregnant is not fun, having extra weight on you is not fun, the possibility of postpartum depression (which i missed the boat for this time) is not fun, waking up at 4:36am with a wailing kid who wants to suck on your boob for the next 5 hours is not fun - but you know what is fun .. listen to your child say to you "I love you too Mommy" for the first time.. seeing your child sing and dance along to his/her favorite Elmo song.. cuddling in bed with your DH/SO and kids.. seeing your child learn something new and "draw" a picture for the first time. I can't think of anything better in the world. Sure, I rather buy a $400 pair of shoes than a $400 stroller imported from New Zealand, but my kids come first.. the love and bond we share now as a family instead of just me and my FH is so tremendous, words cannot describe. I hope the women who want children get to experience that love and bond, it really is beautiful.

Hope that all makes sense :)

blink · Coach

and by the way, not everyone gets stretch marks. I have no stretch marks or scars and breastfeeding has not ruined my boobs.

to each their own, if someone doesn't want to deal with the trouble of little runny noses and tears in grocery carts then they probably aren't fit to love babies anyway, but I just had to speak up and say that having a child is really not as scary or threatening to ones self as some of you are assuming motherhood to be.

Elle · Hermes

lorelei wrote:

if someone doesn't want to deal with the trouble of little runny noses and tears in grocery carts then they probably aren't fit to love babies anyway

I feel that this statement is unfair and untrue. I'm a little saddened that anyone, especially knowing how truly difficult it can be to raise a child, would say something like this

. Maybe it's because for some of us who are still struggling with this issue, in the dark reaches of our minds we fear it is in fact true and maybe not wanting children means that we are terrible people. I'm glad that you've found it to be easier than what it's made out to be, but that experience is not universal. I don't know what else to say ... ?

BargainQueen · Marc Jacobs

Karina wrote:

Wow.. ok... some of the responses here kind of surprise and upset me.. thankfully the people who don't want to be mothers realize that, and don't give into pressure from society and get into something they may regret later. Yes, being a mother means you have to give up a lot of yourself - including your body, your personality, your wallet LOL ... I can't "pick up and go" anymore (actually, it was easier to do that with Chris, but now harder with Chris and a newborn), not being able to travel and go out as often as we used to is not fun, being pregnant is not fun, having extra weight on you is not fun, the possibility of postpartum depression (which i missed the boat for this time) is not fun, waking up at 4:36am with a wailing kid who wants to suck on your boob for the next 5 hours is not fun - but you know what is fun .. listen to your child say to you "I love you too Mommy" for the first time.. seeing your child sing and dance along to his/her favorite Elmo song.. cuddling in bed with your DH/SO and kids.. seeing your child learn something new and "draw" a picture for the first time. I can't think of anything better in the world. Sure, I rather buy a $400 pair of shoes than a $400 stroller imported from New Zealand, but my kids come first.. the love and bond we share now as a family instead of just me and my FH is so tremendous, words cannot describe. I hope the women who want children get to experience that love and bond, it really is beautiful. Hope that all makes sense :)

Some of the responses really upset me as well, I couldn't stop thinking about some of the responses when I went home last night. Maybe some people have children for 'selfish' reasons, but I know that I was not selfish for choosing to bring a child into the world. If anyone would ask me why I chose to have a child, I would say, "My husband & I love children". I'm sorry if some people feel that is selfish. Suprisingly & luckily my baby has been easy (knock on wood), she only wakes up once in the middle of the night to eat which doesn't bother me cuz I've always gotten up to go to the bathroom anyway. My boobs actually look better & bigger than before We have wonderful families who are more than willing to babysit when we want to travel.

I respect the decision of those who choose not to be a mother & don't think you are selfish for choosing it. I love chatting w/all of you regardless of what your lifestyles are. I hope you don't think of me as selfish everytime you see me post about my child here.

Escrime · Kate Spade

I don't think they meant everybody who has kids has them for selfish reasons, just like everybody who doesn't want kids is not doing it for selfish reasons.

I personally don't feel that all people who have kids are selfish, but I think people who have kids for the wrong reason or shouldn't have kids and have them anyway are selfish. Having had parents who fall into the latter category (don't get me wrong, I am glad to be alive, but my parents should not have been parents), it gives me a better perspective on my own decision.

ETA: I wasn't sure if I should put this, unless you guys think I am some monster, but I choose not to have children because I KNOW I would be a bad parent. I'm impatient and quick to anger, and I have some emotional issues that would hinder me being a good parent. In short, I am scared that I would be like my parents were to me growing up, and having experienced that, I wouldn't want to force that on any child. I eventually made peace with my parents, but it took me a long time to get there.

-- Edited by Escrime at 12:08, 2005-08-19

atlgirl · Gucci

f someone doesn't want to deal with the trouble of little runny noses and tears in grocery carts then they probably aren't fit to love babies anyway

Gosh, could you generalize that just a bit? ~sarcasm~

Just because raising children isn't as hard for *you* as you may have thought, or threatening to you, doesn't mean it might be so easy for someone else. I have no doubt that if I had a child(ren), I would absolutely LOVE them. What I worry about is also resenting the demands on my time, the drain on our income, which isn't all that sturdy at times in the first place, etc. And I absolutely don't want to ever resent a child that I would have brought into the world.

This forum is here for people to share their opinions and feelings, and many of us here were have been very open about posting our feelings. Agree or disagree with them as you may, it's rather unkind to just say that someone isn't fit to love another human being because they don't envision enjoying every tiny detail about having a baby / raising a child.

I don't personally feel that any of you on this board who have children are selfish either. I am fine with the whole rest of the world having babies, if that's what everyone wants (population overcrowding issues notwithstanding); I just am not sure it's the right thing for me.

laken1 · Hermes

I'm sorry if this seemed harsh to those of you with kids, but if you have a baby, you may not understand the pressure the rest of us who honestly don't want kids feel from everyone else. Even people that you do not know assume after you get married the next step is having a baby. I can't tell you the number of random people that automatically say "so do you have kids? Are you trying for a baby?" and can't imagine what's wrong with you when you say no. And i shouldn't have to defend that decision to people i know, much less to complete random strangers. THis happens ALL OF THE TIME.

Personally my comments were made to make people that don't want babies feel ok about that decision, because frankly there's not enough support for women who make that decision.

I also look at motherhood like I do other things....like say being a surgeon. That is great if that is your calling, i'm glad you are talented & respect you for doing it because it's a hard job. I'm just not cut out for it. I have a GREAT respect for my sister, friends, and anyone who makes the choice to be a mother. I honestly do think it's the hardest job on earth. But i shouldn't be looked upon as a lesser woman or someone who doesn't deserve the same amount of respect because i don't want to be a mother. And too many times I think women are made to feel this way - particularly by other moms.....

Hermes

lorelei wrote:

"to each their own, if someone doesn't want to deal with the trouble of little runny noses and tears in grocery carts then they probably aren't fit to love babies anyway"

ok - that offended me. I could come back with an equally insulting comment, but I'm not going to stoop to that level.

Hermes

BargainQueen wrote:

"My husband & I love children". I'm sorry if some people feel that is selfish."

would you please refer me to the post that indicated that a love of children being a motivation to have children is selfish?

Hermes

Escrime wrote:

I don't think they meant everybody who has kids has them for selfish reasons, just like everybody who doesn't want kids is not doing it for selfish reasons. I personally don't feel that all people who have kids are selfish, but I think people who have kids for the wrong reason or shouldn't have kids and have them anyway are selfish. Having had parents who fall into the latter category (don't get me wrong, I am glad to be alive, but my parents should not have been parents), it gives me a better perspective on my own decision. ETA: I wasn't sure if I should put this, unless you guys think I am some monster, but I choose not to have children because I KNOW I would be a bad parent. I'm impatient and quick to anger, and I have some emotional issues that would hinder me being a good parent. In short, I am scared that I would be like my parents were to me growing up, and having experienced that, I wouldn't want to force that on any child. I eventually made peace with my parents, but it took me a long time to get there. -- Edited by Escrime at 12:08, 2005-08-19

ditto. except I feel I would be an excellent parent - although I do not have the desire to make the sacrifices necessary for the parenting I would feel is best for a child.

-- Edited by detroit at 13:17, 2005-08-19

blink · Coach

I am sorry if my comment offended anyone, honestly. I feel like all the little not-so-fun things people don't like about having kids are just the things that actual parents have to learn to accept, otherwise they won't make good parents...if they know they don't want to deal with it in advance and choose not to have kids, then I am just saying that's GOOD for all involved, see?

I seem to have a habit this week of offending people without meaning to and I regret my words. I know I have tone a lot. But also, I happen to have found many of the previous comments equally offending, and I again realize that demographically, as a parent, I am in the minority here anyway. Therefore, will keep a lid on it.

ayo · Coach

On second thought..

I'm just going to leave that alone

-- Edited by ayo at 13:16, 2005-08-19

BargainQueen · Marc Jacobs

detroit wrote:

BargainQueen wrote: "My husband & I love children". I'm sorry if some people feel that is selfish." would you please refer me to the post that indicated that a love of children being a motivation to have children is selfish?

"I personally feel it's selfish to have a child"

I noticed the post is now edited so I assume the post was not worded properly & I may have taken it as an offense the way it was worded before. The post also said they yet to meet a parent who didn't have a selfish reason for having their child. I hope now they can now say they met some here on stylethread

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

ok, things seem to be getting kinda heated... i think i may have an inkling as to why, but i hope like heck i'm not about to make it worse...deep breath...here goes:

when i first read prissy's post i felt for her as a fellow woman but i didn't think i really had any advice as my own feelings about having a child are quite different. so i didn't respond. when i read more posts later on, it really felt like prissy got the support and reassurance she was looking for and i was really happy about that. but around that same time it also felt like there was a certain amount of "baby bashing" going on. i do not mean that comment as an attack on anyone at all, i promise, it's just how I felt reading some of the posts. i could go back and pick out certain phrases that made me feel that way but again it was just a general feeling of unease. so i think that may have led to mothers and future mothers and wanna-be mothers (like myself) wanting to justify, or at least explain, our feelings on the matter.

i've heard the theory about having children being selfish many times before, and i've heard the inverse of the theory many times as well that not wanting to have a child is selfish too. and all i have to say about that is what's the point of throwing out negative adjectives, doesn't it just cloud the issue? why does either woman, the one who wants kids and the one who doesn't, have to suffer that insult?

i understand that there is a lot of societal pressure to be married and have kids (trust me, i get it) so i definitely understand why people get defensive when everyone questions their life decisions. the thing is though, sometimes it turns into a cycle of defensiveness and people get pinned down to what they said here and what they meant there and blah blah blah. which is just such a shame. the person it's a shame for the most i think is the girl who might change her mind. the girl who maybe doesn't think she wants kids now but isn't completely sure. if she has to have it thrown in her face "but you said you didn't want them, remember" or "didn't you say it was selfish to have kids" or whatever, i feel like she might feel like she's not entitled to change her mind, when she most definitely is.

i don't know if anything i posted made any kind of sense but i hope so, because i love you all and it pains me to see upsetness on either side of the issue. peace out, peeps!

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

Yeah no one meant to suggest that having children is selfish, period. What detroit & laken were saying and what I was agreeing with is that people too often to have children for selfish reasons. And people often have children without truly searching their own hearts and being honest with themselves about whether they are capable of being loving, nurturing, supportive parents to the children they create for the rest of their lives. Some of those people do turn out to be magnificent parents but some, like escrime's parents as she was describing, have serious problems which in turn create serious problems for their children. I, and some of the others, have a real problem with people becoming parents irresponsibly or self-indulgently, but nobody is dumping on moms or parenthood in general.

And the stuff about stretch marks and boobs is just silliness. No one actually thinks that is a reason not to have children. For me, it's just a reason that I'm not looking forward to being pregnant. If I do eventually decide to have a family, that will, quite obviously, be the last thing on my mind.