STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

kenzie · Chanel

A quick work poll

Alikat · Kate Spade

I am definitely bored!

I still don't know what I ultimately want to do for a living, but right now I'm really excited to apply to teach english in Japan! I just have to get into the program and wait a year.

honey · Gucci

i used to be very bored and extremely unsatisfied with my job, but then i came to terms with my feelings/situation and am much happier now. i wish i didn't have a nine to five, my dream is to work for myself and set my own schedule. ideally i'd like to be some sort of boutique owner/stylist/general scenester/dj type of person --- you know jack of all trades boss of none. and i honestly hope to accomplish that one day, and know that if i work hard enough eventually i'll find the right fit.

i didn't always have this idealistic outlook. the job i have now is my first job out of college. i never really wanted this job but just took it b/c i wanted to be in nyc. i realized at the outset that it was a dead-end. it's moderately challenging, but there are no opportunities for advancement. so i decided to look for something else. unfortunately the economy was (still is) in the tubes, so even though i had decent qualifications i was competing against people with stellar qualifications for entry level jobs. well i looked on & off for about two years b/f finding something else, which was essentially a lateral move primarily b/c i wanted to get out of the job i have now. well i hated the new job, even more than i thought i hated my old job, and ultimately went back.

while i'm not 100% happy, i am much, much happier than i was b/f i left the first time, and that's primarily due to a change in outlook, not circumstances. the biggest thing for me was realizing that my job doesn't define who i am as a person. it's just one small part of the big picture. i used to get so jealous of people with jobs with magazines, or even people who were i-bankers b/c i felt that they were at least on the "right" track. but i had to come to terms with the fact that my job is not who i am. so what if my 9-5 isn't exciting. as long as i do interesting meaningful stuff in my free time then i'm okay.

i also realized that a vast majority of people are unhappy with their jobs. unhappy maybe isn't the right word. but imo i feel like very few people *love* their jobs (i could be wrong), most people find them tolerable and a means to an end for pursuing/financing the things that they really want. also i think for most people the whole career thing is a series of trial & error. you keep looking & looking until you finally find something that is the right fit for you. while this is not the ideal, the world isn't an ideal place, and for me it's about making the best with what i have. so while i'm not thrilled with my job, there are definite perks (i.e. the downtime i have to spend on stylethread) and it allows me to do the things i love, like shop.

it's funny b/c i read this article the other day that really hit home. it essentially labelled our generation people in their mid-20's as generation entitlement in that we didn't expect to put in a lot of effort to reap results. not that i buy this 100% but it rang true for me b/c literally everything i had done up until trying to find a job had come relatively easily. not that i had a free pass, but i learned that there was a direct correlation b/t the amount of effort i put in and the results i received. an idea that doesn't translate to the real world that well. i'm going to come back and finish this later this evening, but that's my perspective so far...

Alikat · Kate Spade

I think the 'entitlement generation' is somewhat true, but also misleading. I think a lot of people genuinely would work hard to get into a career, but have no idea what career to enter. Some people do expect to make a fat salary straight away.

For me the real shocker was going from college, where I was being mentally stimulated and challenged to a job that doesn't do either on any level.

I used to get irritated when my parent's friends asked me "So what are you going to do with a degree in history?" Now I know why they asked, because I'm still not sure! It would have been easier if I had researched those options before graduating.

-- Edited by Alikat at 21:41, 2005-08-02

cc · Marc Jacobs

honey wrote:

while i'm not 100% happy, i am much, much happier than i was b/f i left the first time, and that's primarily due to a change in outlook, not circumstances. the biggest thing for me was realizing that my job doesn't define who i am as a person. it's just one small part of the big picture. i used to get so jealous of people with jobs with magazines, or even people who were i-bankers b/c i felt that they were at least on the "right" track. but i had to come to terms with the fact that my job is not who i am. so what if my 9-5 isn't exciting. as long as i do interesting meaningful stuff in my free time then i'm okay.

i also realized that a vast majority of people are unhappy with their jobs. unhappy maybe isn't the right word. but imo i feel like very few people *love* their jobs (i could be wrong), most people find them tolerable and a means to an end for pursuing/financing the things that they really want. also i think for most people the whole career thing is a series of trial & error. you keep looking & looking until you finally find something that is the right fit for you. while this is not the ideal, the world isn't an ideal place, and for me it's about making the best with what i have. so while i'm not thrilled with my job, there are definite perks (i.e. the downtime i have to spend on stylethread) and it allows me to do the things i love, like shop.

I would say that in general I am satisfied with my job. But I also feel the same was as honey. It's definitely not my dream job and it's not a field in which I am interested. At some point towards the end of college I realized that if I really want to do something in my field (either the art world or academia) I would have to face years of crappy, low-paying jobs and at some point I would have to get a PhD which would be likely followed by more years of of debt and desperation. So I decided to try to figure out what sort of career I could deal with for years to come and which would provide me with a steady and decent income. I like being a librarian and doing research but I have zero interest in corporate law - yet it pays well and is always challenging. And as honey said, the benefits of the job (salary plus vacation time) allow me to do interesting things in my free time. I go to shows all the time, I've taken Italian classes, I travel several times a year.

I remember arguing with my parents during my senior year of college because I wanted to go into a more academic field and they wanted me to do something practical. My dad, who was an English major, said something like "Do you think I wanted to do what I'm doing (PR crap for a computer company)? No, I wanted to sit and read all day. But I had a family and I had to make money somehow so I found a job. And I read at least one book a week - that's how I use my degree."

kenzie · Chanel

honey wrote:

the biggest thing for me was realizing that my job doesn't define who i am as a person. it's just one small part of the big picture. i used to get so jealous of people with jobs with magazines, or even people who were i-bankers b/c i felt that they were at least on the "right" track. but i had to come to terms with the fact that my job is not who i am. so what if my 9-5 isn't exciting. as long as i do interesting meaningful stuff in my free time then i'm okay. i also realized that a vast majority of people are unhappy with their jobs. unhappy maybe isn't the right word. but imo i feel like very few people *love* their jobs (i could be wrong), most people find them tolerable and a means to an end for pursuing/financing the things that they really want. also i think for most people the whole career thing is a series of trial & error. you keep looking & looking until you finally find something that is the right fit for you. while this is not the ideal, the world isn't an ideal place, and for me it's about making the best with what i have. so while i'm not thrilled with my job, there are definite perks (i.e. the downtime i have to spend on stylethread) and it allows me to do the things i love, like shop. it's funny b/c i read this article the other day that really hit home. it essentially labelled our generation people in their mid-20's as generation entitlement in that we didn't expect to put in a lot of effort to reap results. not that i buy this 100% but it rang true for me b/c literally everything i had done up until trying to find a job had come relatively easily. not that i had a free pass, but i learned that there was a direct correlation b/t the amount of effort i put in and the results i received. an idea that doesn't translate to the real world that well. i'm going to come back and finish this later this evening, but that's my perspective so far...

While I agree partially with what you are saying, I can't say that I am completely on board. I have read articles about the 'entitlement generation' as well. I don't think that I feel 'entitled' but I do feel like I'm going to spend so much of my adult life working and I feel that I would be wasting a huge chunk of my life by not finding something that is fulfilling to me.

Growing up, however, things did come easily to me. I was 'the talented one' who was always getting cast in musicals and plays. I played the piano and my teacher all but called me a prodigy. And this started when I was in 1st or 2nd grade. Everything just always came easily to me, no matter what I tried. So I guess, I'm just frustrated b/c I'm working so hard and doing everything right and I'm still not successful. It's not entitlement. To me, entitlement is a harsh term and seems to imply that you think you deserve something better than you actually should have simply b/c you did such and such. I don't feel like "I deserve a and b b/c of c." I just want desperately to have a job that is fulfilling to me. I'm not the kind of person who can sit back and say, "yeah, my job sucks, but my free time is great." I spend to much time at work to be okay with saying that. Not that either viewpoint is bad. It's just what makes people different. I'm sure some people don't understand why I'm so upset about my job situation, but on the flip side, there are definitely other people with whom my story hits home.

honey · Gucci

finishing what i wrote earlier... as far as the entitlement issue i don't agree with it b/c i definitely don't feel entitled to things. but for me personally i think our generation grew up in relatively prosperous times, so there was this expectation that the prosperity would just transfer to us/me. my college years were during the internet boom and i had several classmates who became rich due to the internet (if they're still rich is the real question). my junior year of college it seemed as though they were handing out i-banking jobs with fat expense accounts to any idiot with a degree. and while i-banking wasn't my chosen profession i was definitely willing to "sacrifice" for the check. of course when my turn came that totally wasn't the case. and it was a hard thing to deal with. not b/c i felt i was entitled to it, but i had worked hard, and i felt a well paying, possibly fulfilling job was something that i rightfully deserved.

and while i don't advocate just saying oh well, and sucking it up for life. i do think you have to be prepared to do a lot of boring stuff to get to the point you actually want to be at. which i think to a certain extent most people are willing to accept, but i don't think that a lot of people are prepared for the fact that it's also going to take some sucking it up in a field you don't want to be in to get to the place you actually want to be. additionally i still firmly believe that your job shouldn't be your only source of fulfillment (well imo no one thing should completely fulfill you b/c life is about balance). even if i get to a point where i'm happy with my job it's still not going to be my source.

i guess what i'm saying in a very longwinded way, is that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. obvs i don't *know* you so i can't totally understand your perspective, but i can relate to it b/c i've been in/am still in similar circumstances. and realizing that i might, for a little while, have to be just cope with it, has helped me deal and maintain my sanity. b/c i totally would've lost it if i kept dwelling on the unhappy part.

kenzie · Chanel

honey wrote:

even if i get to a point where i'm happy with my job it's still not going to be my source. i guess what i'm saying in a very longwinded way, is that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. obvs i don't *know* you so i can't totally understand your perspective, but i can relate to it b/c i've been in/am still in similar circumstances. and realizing that i might, for a little while, have to be just cope with it, has helped me deal and maintain my sanity. b/c i totally would've lost it if i kept dwelling on the unhappy part.

Ah, yes, that's the OCD perfectionist coming out in me that is causing me to be so hard on myself.

I agree with what you're saying about having to take the crap jobs to get to the good ones. I certainly don't expect to land a plum position as Creative Director at a cushy ad agency. That would be ridiculous! What I would expect is an assistant position at an agency or an advertising department, not a receptionist, dead-end job or a retail management job that is nowhere close to where I want to be. I guess my issue is that my laundry list of dead-end jobs don't look good on a resume. They aren't helping me reach any goals that I have at all. That's the frustrating part. All I want is an entry-level-ish position in a place where I can work my way up or at least get my foot in the door in the industry.

I also have a hard time stomaching the fact that when I was interning, I did more work than I actually do now in the 'real world.' I actually did copywriting and publication design when I was intern, now I answer phones and stuff brochures and that just seems very backwards to me. I guess I was spoiled by my awesome internships, too. I've gotten a taste of what it's like to have a job that I like and I want it again! I just feel like I'm running in a hamster wheel to nowheresville. That's my issue. Sorry, that got a little rambly.

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

Well, you know I'm bored. Bored to tears!

I'm an office manager in a publishing field. I love the company, but don't like the job. It's hard because the people and the benefits are outstanding, and the pay is enough, although I do think I deserve more. I am going back to school and hope to stay with the company after I graduate, but I will be more than ready to leave by then if I am still in my current position. Right now I am looking at all the postings at my company and applying to the ones I think I'd like. Well, that's the plan at least. I have only seen 1 posting that interested me, and I didn't get it.

In order to like my current job, I need some sense of accomplishment and job satisfaction. I don't have an ounce of that now. I am working with my boss to find some, and am routinely given new responsibilities, but it's not enough. I did, however, create an opporunity for myself this morning, so keep your fingers crossed.

Ideally, I'd like to do something in HR or promotions or event planning. All are very small departments at my current place of employment. So, I may end up searching for a new job once I have my masters.

Meanwhile, I remind myself that I'm young and have plenty of time to figure it out. It just doesn't always feel like that. I think I need a creative outlet. I'm working on that aspect, so we'll see if it remedies anything.

-gd

kenzie · Chanel

greendiamond wrote:

In order to like my current job, I need some sense of accomplishment and job satisfaction. I don't have an ounce of that now. I am working with my boss to find some, and am routinely given new responsibilities, but it's not enough. I did, however, create an opporunity for myself this morning, so keep your fingers crossed... Meanwhile, I remind myself that I'm young and have plenty of time to figure it out. It just doesn't always feel like that. I think I need a creative outlet. I'm working on that aspect, so we'll see if it remedies anything. -gd

greendiamond, I couldn't have said it better myself. I absolutely need to be creative. Being creative in my free time is not enough for me. And I do need a job that I'm consistently growing and being challenged and given new responsibilities (that don't include stuffing and answering phones).

I feel like I finally know exactly what I want to do and I have a plan of attack (sort of), so that's the first step. I think that some of my problem when I first graduated from college was that I wasn't sure exactly what aspect of marketing I wanted to pursue, whether I wanted to go the PR/event planning route or get into advertising. After taking a long, hard look at what I really like to do and where my strengths lie, I see that advertising would be better suited for me. So, maybe I'll have better luck now that I have a more clear idea of what I want to do.

But, best of luck to you, greendiamond, I hope the opportunity you created pans out for you! Please keep us updated.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Oh my God I am so bored! I literally have about an hour of actual work to do each day (if that)- and by actual work, I mean data entry, envelope stuffing, and scheduling meetings. Fun stuff, I tell you.

I don't know what I'd rather be doing, which is part of why I'm still here. I do know that I like to be busy, have at least some responsability, have to use my brain (I love strategizing and problem solving and before my old boss quit that was a big part of my job here...with my new boss, not so much)...

I did just have a conversation with my boss about this though and she is going to let me be in charge of some event planning- I am so excited about this!

atlgirl · Gucci

To add a little from the other side of the table:

I have my "dream job". And I LOVE it. I work for myself. But that's not to say it's all easy, either. Doing what I love *for a living* means it's still work, and there are aspects of every job that aren't as enjoyable.

It depends on what you can/can't live with. I work from home and thus far, do not contribute to our household income - my business has been profitable after the second year (I'm in year four now) but not enough for me to live on - if my husband's salary didn't pay the mortgage, the car payment (yes, one car pmt, the other vehicle is on its last legs, but paid off), the utilities, the groceries...I'd be living on the streets to do what I do, or I'd have a second income stream (actually, I have two other income streams right now, but DH's earnings allow those streams to be intermittent instead of constant).

Being on one income means that finances are often tight, and that I don't get to buy many of the beautiful things I see here, or in the stores, or on web sites. I'm okay with that. I sometimes feel a twinge when I go shopping with GF's who earn six figures (as do their SO's) who can drop $500 on clothes or whatever, but then I remind myself that come Monday morning, I don't have to face traffic and get my butt into an office on someone else's schedule. And that's worth *not* having the shopping $$ for me.

Pros:
- I am *never* bored. Who has the time? There are always new things to research, inventory to make, paperwork to be done, etc., etc.

- I get to make all the decisions (branding, packaging, direction, etc) for my company

- I can work on my own schedule. I have Fibromyalgia, and mornings are usually the worst for me. So I do computer-related stuff in the a.m. and then do errands, inventory-making, any appointments (like going to stores, etc) in the afternoon, when I feel better.

- I work from home, so I can get laundry done while I'm here, take a break to go to the grocery store, be home for the servicepeople, I can take 20 minutes and lie down on an ice pack if my pain is really bad - I have flexibility in my day

- I get to do what I love to do most for a living!

Cons:

- I do not draw a salary (yet!) which means that we make sacrifices constantly in order for me to continue to do this. My husband never complains, bless him. He believes in me fully, and I am very fortunate for that

- I am EVERYTHING - accounts receivable, accounts payable, I track all my mileage, my purchases, every expenditure vs. sales income. I research new packaging, new computers, technical stuff (which is deadly dull for me), tools to make me more efficient and (hopefully) save me money, I am the advertising department, the PR, the receptionist...you get the idea. I review overhead periodically to make sure I am still covering expenses...small business owners wear a lot of hats, and some are much more fun than others.

- I do a lot of physical work (which my Fibro often does not appreciate) because I do festivals to sell my work, so I am spending many weekends at 7 a.m. setting up a tent and hauling my tables/displays/electricity/flooring/walls to the show, then selling to people all day (which has its own good and bad parts), then coming back the next day and doing it all over again...and then sometimes for a third day...and then packing everything back up and heading home, exhausted, to go do the paperwork (add people to the mailing list, process the credit card paperwork), clean my displays, replace whatever I ran out of, etc. Show weekends are LONG and often hot, rainy, windy, and the buying public can be fickle. You never know how much (or if) profit you'll make by doing a show.

- I have to watch spending vs. income because I can get nailed with a big chunk at tax time - self-employment tax - there's no "withholding" for me, so I need to be on top of where the business is at, always. The Pro to this is that we get to deduct a lot of my expenses through our Schedule C.

- With a very flexible schedule comes a lot of responsibility to be self-motivated. If I don't get up and get the work done, it won't get done. Period. Yes, I could sleep late and sometimes I do, go out shopping in the middle of the day when the stores are less crowded, spend all day on the 'net surfing - and sometimes I do some of these things. But if I did them constantly the business would certainly fail.

- Also, I have less reason to dress up than ever (I am including this here because we are essentially a fashion forum, so think about what it would be like if you just worked from home in casual clothes all day, most days) so I have less reasons to shop (which is good and bad IMO) and I don't have a lot of outside contact. For me, this is a Pro, but for some people, it's a big Con. It's quiet here! Sometimes the only contact I have all day is if I make calls to suppliers, etc. - short calls, usually. I like it this way, but think if you spent most of each day alone and not interacting with anyone...would you enjoy that?

- Per the IRS, I have to make a profit every three out of five years, so there's always that pressure to make this work or I could possibly be declared a hobby and have to pay all the back taxes on things I've deducted. And always the possiblity of an audit looming...small home businesses are a prime target. In a big corporation, most of us aren't responsible for that kind of stuff.

- I used to design for pleasure, but now when I sit down to create, I'm always thinking about, "will it sell, is it profitable" which takes some of the joy out of designing. But not all of it, by any means. I still love to create new designs, put them out at shows, and watch people's eyes light up when they fall in love with 'em. And when I do find the time to actually sit at the work table - it seems like admin tasks just eat up a lot of time every day - shaping wire and planning new designs is still bring me a lot of joy and satisfaction. For some, doing what they love (in my example, turning a loved hobby into a business) makes them love it a good bit less...so think about that too.

I know that every small biz isn't exactly like mine - some may have more outside contact, some may not have the crazy weekend hours at shows, some may have more reason to dress for meetings or whatever...but the grass isn't always greener if you *don't* work for the corporate world. It suits me, and part of my goal to make this succeed in the long run is because I never want to go back to a corporate job, but it also takes a lot of drive and responsibility as well.

Dream jobs are often still jobs - if you want to work for yourself, I say go for it! But know what you're getting into, and have a plan in place - small businesses suck up money like crazy, especially in the first few years, so if you leave a good-paying job (with health insurance and retirement funds - I didn't even go into that), be sure you have saved *more* than you think you need. I am sure JMR and Drew can add to some of this if they choose to, having businesses of their own.

Nylabelle, sometimes when you're on the hamster wheel (or feeling like you are), you don't always know what is being laid out for the future. I spent a lot of time in retail, as you did, and time in the corporate world too, and while I intensely disliked some of those jobs (or some aspects of those jobs), other aspects were a great learning field for my running my own business. A lot of "creatives" don't understand (or don't want to understand) the business side of things, and I think that's one of the main reasons why a lot of small businesses fail. You (general you) can't just create in a vacuum...you have to price it appropriately, market it, brand it, etc.

Hang in there, sweetie. I told you I think you have the guts to make that leap, and I know you're laying some groundwork with the school plans and such. This job is just a drop in the bucket of your working life, though sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees, until you are through the forest and looking back at it. *s*

kenzie · Chanel

atlgirl wrote:

Nylabelle, sometimes when you're on the hamster wheel (or feeling like you are), you don't always know what is being laid out for the future. I spent a lot of time in retail, as you did, and time in the corporate world too, and while I intensely disliked some of those jobs (or some aspects of those jobs), other aspects were a great learning field for my running my own business. A lot of "creatives" don't understand (or don't want to understand) the business side of things, and I think that's one of the main reasons why a lot of small businesses fail. You (general you) can't just create in a vacuum...you have to price it appropriately, market it, brand it, etc. Hang in there, sweetie. I told you I think you have the guts to make that leap, and I know you're laying some groundwork with the school plans and such. This job is just a drop in the bucket of your working life, though sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees, until you are through the forest and looking back at it. *s*

Thanks for posting, atlgirl. I don't know if I really want to do jewelry design full-time. I may always keep it as a part-time gig. I would love to work for an advertising agency and work my way up to a Creative Director position. As far as running a business, I definitely have a mind for the business side of things as well (whether I *like* the busines side is a completely different topic but like you said, there are always going to be aspects you don't like, not matter what your job).

The gameplan right now is to get a second degree in Graphic Design/Studio Art and most likely an MFA in Advertising Design (from SCAD). And I would like to get an MBA as well (by that time, I would probably just do it online).

Thanks again, for posting (it was a great post) and for your kind words of encouragement.

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

Ugh! Bored I am.

However, I am going to make a big leap I think. I was a marketing major and am very good (may I say) at what I do. I graduated the highest in the Marketing Department, given many awards, worked with professors...blah blah blah. I should have been working for some great company already right?!?! Of course not. The prospect of doing what I am doing currently (fighting to make salespeople believe that I can help them, making my boss understand why he hired me...yada yada yada) is sickening. I love marketing, don't get me wrong, but actually working for a company that pays you pennies because "marketing" is relatively bogus is horrible.

I have an interview this evening for an assistant manager for a retail outlet at woodbury commons. You say- "Wah! A college degree, have a marketing job, then going back to retail? Are you nutty?" I think that its time that I did something that I like (I am only 23)- clothing and managing- hey it might lead to a retail director position, I could be a manager at bloomingdales someday. That just seems better to me.

Thanks for reading my mundane life issues!

Andrea Julia · Coach

n/m

-- Edited by Andrea Julia at 00:42, 2006-01-29

Seashells · Dooney & Bourke

Andrea Julia wrote:

I got way off subject, but that is what I have been dealing with all week. I don't know what I want to do instead. Maybe work for myself? But what would I do? I could also see myself working with Greenpeace, but I don't know how my bills would get paid then.

I want to be an Environmental Lobbyist. But then I think I would have to live in a cardboard box-recycled of course.

We are very similar, so I feel your pain!

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Seashells wrote:

I want to be an Environmental Lobbyist. But then I think I would have to live in a cardboard box-recycled of course. We are very similar, so I feel your pain!

that's so not true!! I have a ton of friends that are lobbyists (the good kind of lobbyists of course

) and the money actually isn't as bad as you'd expect it to be.