STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

theotherjess · Chanel

My (maybe not so earth shattering) epiphany

bostongal · BCBG

Yup. I'd say that's pretty much true, in most cases. I think it's a lot about how were brought up... even though it's been better in the last few decades, I think for a long time women were NOT encouraged to speak their minds. And I still know so many women who feel like they have to apologize or answer to someone when they DO speak their minds or speak up for what they want. Sad.

The day I started to really say what I wanted to (within reason!) was the day I really started to feel like myself

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I think I just divorced the exception to that rule. No wait, really I think women are more complicated than that, and men too. I'm very good friends with a lot of boys, and they don't necessarily say what they mean any more than we do. In fact, the things they DON"T talk about are a fascinating non-conversation in themselves. Hookups for example. I just watched one guy make the first public comment about another's continuing hookup by casually dropping the phrase "you guys" into conversation with one of the hook-up-ees. It was definitely as artful as anything my friends and I could have managed in middle school. The hookupee ignored it. And I realized that, had he acknowledged it, then they could have come out as a couple. But since he didn't, they're still in the "everybody knows but we're not telling" phase. Or really, probably, he's not telling her that they're not going to be anything and seeing how long she'll put up with it.

Which reminds me, you know, guys definitely DO NOT say what they mean when it comes to relationships. In fact, they literally believe that if they DON"T say "I think you're ok but I'm just hanging out with you because you, um, put out...." and the girl instead puts some other interpretation on it, like "you're at my place every night, so we're going out..." that it is somehow HER fault. And while he avoids the conversation that will end his string-free booty, the girl is probably agonizing to her friends "but what does it mean..."

Meanwhile, I'm stuck evaluating my loyalties: my friends v. the sisterhood. Actually, the only time I attempted to warn the girl, she freaked out on me and thought I was trying to be mean and possessive. So I don't do that anymore. No one likes a tattle tale, right?

Wow, you really got me going on a tangent. Sorry. And the more I think about it, the more I think men are AT LEAST as devious as we are. Probably more so, because they never cop to it... "What, it's not my fault. I never promised her ANYTHING..."

Ok, I'm going to stop ranting now... and go hit one of my friends for being a man... (the only friend I have who doesn't do this never gets laid, poor guy, and what a commentary on us, too...)

blubirde · Chanel

quote:
Originally posted by: theotherjess
"Guys say what they mean, girls say what they think you want to hear."

Gonna have to disagree. I say what I mean every day. Even if it's hard and even if it's embarassing. Guys play games, too. It's not a male/female thing - it's an everyday person thing. Different people relate differently and operate differently. Personally, I do not like people, male or female, who don't say what they mean. It's obvious and frustrating and I don't put up with it.

And trust me, guys play just as many games as women do. The secret is to find the one that tells it like it is - he's the one to keep around. The same goes for girls.

Here's the fyi: sex gets a lot better once women speak up and say what they want. (This may or may not have been the topic but it needs saying!)

theotherjess · Chanel

Didn't mean to come off as sexist . What I meant was that in my recent experience it seems that the guys I know are able to just say whatever without fear of consequence while most of the girls I know tend to have to defend what they say. Which sucks, but then again I guess it's back to your feminist post, blubirde. I think it's great that you are able to say what you think .

-- Edited by theotherjess at 21:29, 2005-04-25

blink · Coach

Sorry, no way. I can't concede this simplified explanation, though I see where you are coming from. In my case, I am a very honest and upfront girl, I am unafraid to speak up. But I will also do so humbly and be open to opposing viewpoints and those precious "oh, I didn't think of it that way" reciprocation. Also, I think I say what I mean, but then sometimes it gets understood wrong. So I have to work to choose my words carefully and sometimes that gets "chatty" but it's because I have trouble making my points always concise AND true to my feeling. Therefore I do (what you might be calling) defend my point.

My husband says what he thinks people want to hear, to me this is disingenuous, but he lives life as though he is living in a sales seminar. And when he speaks boldly, he does so concisely and with a smile, but he often isn't telling the full story. I know a lot of guys like this. It is sort of a confident communication to outsiders who don't know better, but it drips in insincerity and true boldness to those who really know these guys on the interior.

blubirde · Chanel

quote:
Originally posted by: theotherjess
"Didn't mean to come off as sexist . What I meant was that in my recent experience it seems that the guys I know are able to just say whatever without fear of consequence while most of the girls I know tend to have to defend what they say. Which sucks, but then again I guess it's back to your feminist post, blubirde. I think it's great that you are able to say what you think . -- Edited by theotherjess at 21:29, 2005-04-25"

I think I know what you mean. I think men feel comfortable expressing their opinions in most situations while women feel the need to pick and choose what to say, when to say it, etc. for fear of being rejected, ridiculed, or plain old inappropriate. I never learned to not speak my opinion until law school when it seemed nothing I said was right. I'm still trying to work my way out of that stigma by expressing myself clearly, concisely, and even in times when I might be afraid to speak up for fear of being chastised.

So yes, I understand what you're saying and it sucks. Luckily there are women out there who don't put up with double-standards and do their best to try to rectify the situation you're describing. It just seems like women are conditioned to being seen rather than heard, but hopefully us big-mouthed broads are changing that stereotype!

RyanJ · Coach

I would say in general you are right. Obvioulsly there are exceptions.

splash · Kenneth Cole

I don't think that this is entirely true, but I definitely think there's some truth to it.... I think there are certain situations in which men or women *in general* tend to say what they think more. Like, women are more likely not to say what they think when they think doing so would make others not like them. I don't think men are as likely to worry about this type of rejection. I can't think of places where women are more likely to say what they think, but I'm sure there are some... Again, just like the original post, this is all generalities... I still find it interesting, though.