STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Metric · Gucci

Do morals affect the way you shop?

Aurora · Marc Jacobs

The only store I really don't shop at for any type of "reason" is Buckle because they fired my friend because she didn't show up to work because she had had a seizure and was in a hospital bed. They claimed she should have notified them before her shift. It was probably just localized to the store manager/mall that she worked at but I still refuse to shop at any of them.

Otherwise I can't really see the point of really trying to remember which brand/store/company stands for what or just buying stuff from a certain country especially since they might make a part of it in XYZ country and then do another piece of it in ABC country and slap on a made in USA label to get people to buy it. Just seems like a lot of work to me.

kenzie · Chanel

Yes, definitely. I refuse to shop at Walmart. Earlier this semester, I had to do research on Walmart for one of my classes and much of the information was not a surprise to me but there was definitely additional info that just disgusted me. I haven't shopped there in years anyway, but had I been a Walmart shopper prior to that project, I definitely wouldn't be one now. They just drive down incomes and bully manufacturers so the manufacturers don't even make a profit. The Walmart of today is definitely not the Walmart Sam Walton envisioned when he first opened the store. Definitely an example of a company not sticking to its core values.

I also had some issues with Forever21 not paying their LA garment workers a few years ago.

I realize that outsourcing and globalization is a reality, but there is a right and a wrong way for companies to go about utilizing these things. I will boycott stores that utilize sweatshops.

Oh, and I agree the CEO of American Apparel is disgusting.

-- Edited by kenzie on Monday 30th of March 2009 02:20:49 PM

Suasoria · Chanel

Heck yes. My ethics/morals impact the way I do everything.

atlgirl · Gucci

I do. I don't shop at Wal-Mart. I don't shop American Apparel (though sometimes I'd like to). I also don't shop at Abercrombie.

I don't buy / use Max Factor - Smashbox products, but if I did, I probably wouldn't stop because one of the heirs is a convicted rapist. He's in prison and I don't think I could taint the whole empire with the brush of one bad seed. I design and sell jewelry, and if I had a son, and if he raped someone, I'd hope that people wouldn't say "I can't buy atlgirl's jewelry because her child is a rapist". With AA and Wal-Mart, their practices and behaviors are bigger and more far-reaching, so I won't put my money behind that.

I try (though I am not often too successful) to not buy a lot of things made in China because I have issues with a lot of China's policies and practices. But so many things are imported here and often it's hard for me to find something else that's *not* made in China that fits my needs.

"Do you ever feel like 1 person not shopping at a huge corporation isn't going to make a difference"

It probably doesn't. But I feel better knowing that I am not supporting companies whose principles are so different from mine.

"Otherwise I can't really see the point of really trying to remember which brand/store/company stands for what"

IMO the point is not to put one's money behind businesses with these types of practices. I choose to consider who gets the benefit of spending my hard-earned dollars, and I won't spend them on places that don't support the same values or morals that I do. One of my personal mantras is "do no harm" and I try to live that as much as possible every day, with my own business practices and in my personal life. Sometimes I don't do as well as I could / should but I do make the effort. IMO the CEO of AA is doing plenty of harm. And so are those other companies.

/off soapbox/

-- Edited by atlgirl on Monday 30th of March 2009 04:17:09 PM

wicked · Coach

I wont shop at Anthropologie or Urban Outfitters because the owner/chairman donated money to Rick Santorum. I don't shop at Wal-mart and I try to avoid products made in China.

Metric- I totally forgot about that guy from Max Factor and I didn't know they owned Smashbox. Thanks for the reminder.

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

I absolutely let my morals dictate where I shop. However, I do not research each company I shop at. If I happen upon information about a company, and I don't like it, I will look into it further and stop shopping there if need be.

I also boycott places that give me bad service, and there is no getting back on my good side. I have sworn off many retailers!

And, I do think it makes an impact. Albiet not a huge one, but I feel better knowing that I didn't contribute to their profits, and if everyone used their money to vote their conscious I think the picture of corporate america would be different.

stardust · Kenneth Cole

My morals definitely affect which brands I buy - although I know there is probably a lot that I do buy that would change if I knew more (e.g companies talked about in this thread that I didn't know about.)

I carry a list with me of brands that don't test on animals because I figure if I am going to support animal causes and sign petitions etc then I also need to make sure that what I buy doesn't go against that. I think that letter-writing and expressing opposition to what a company does as well as boycotting shopping can make a difference. I hope it does.

Teresa · Kate Spade

Okay, I am apologizing ahead of time, as I get a little heated discussing human rights issues...

"....China, India or Bangladesh. Every product made in those countries can't possibly all be from sweatshops, can they?"

metric! YES! Good Lord, woman. Here are websites on this topic:
http://feminist.org/other/sweatshops/sweatfaq.html
http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/sweatshops/whattoknow.cfm
and..."I am mixed when it comes to shopping morals- I have no qualms about shopping at Walmart or buying things that may be from "sweatshop" countries. Rarely does that ever cross my mind when buying things. However, there are certain companies I won't shop at if I know something bad about that company."

Okay, I don't know what to say about that. I am not trying to be a bitch, who am I to judge you? I just can't understand your thought process here. Aye.

lynnie · Chanel

Hate to say it, but corporate greed isn't the only problem. Consumer demand keeps a company afloat. When we live in a world where we expect and think and will only buy a shirt costs $10... then yea. Sweatshop. As many people can boycott Wal-Mart as they want yet it is still one of the biggest companies in the world. And why? If people REALLY cared, it wouldn't be. Because people like CHEAP stuff, regardless of how it is made.

Now.. if we paid the fair price of things, and owned less and only what we needed... then I think the world would be a better place.

I actually get most of my clothes from work.. so I know where they're made and even the people that make them sometimes. I will buy a few other pieces here and there, and some secondhand. For other stuff, I tend to just shop in my neighborhood, so at least I'm supporting local business.

Metric · Gucci

collegegirl5858 wrote:

Okay, I am apologizing ahead of time, as I get a little heated discussing human rights issues...

"....China, India or Bangladesh. Every product made in those countries can't possibly all be from sweatshops, can they?"

metric! YES! Good Lord, woman. Here are websites on this topic:
http://feminist.org/other/sweatshops/sweatfaq.html
http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/sweatshops/whattoknow.cfm
and..."I am mixed when it comes to shopping morals- I have no qualms about shopping at Walmart or buying things that may be from "sweatshop" countries. Rarely does that ever cross my mind when buying things. However, there are certain companies I won't shop at if I know something bad about that company."

Okay, I don't know what to say about that. I am not trying to be a bitch, who am I to judge you? I just can't understand your thought process here. Aye.

Its not that I do it intentionally, it just doesn't cross my mind when I'm shopping to look at the "Made in" label. I'm not conscious of it. Mostly, i think, because I am not really informed. I'm not pro-Walmart but I'm not exactly out there picketing either.

Thanks for the links, I would really like to know more about it and make myself a conscious consumer.

Suasoria · Chanel

lynnie wrote:

Hate to say it, but corporate greed isn't the only problem. Consumer demand keeps a company afloat. When we live in a world where we expect and think and will only buy a shirt costs $10... then yea. Sweatshop. As many people can boycott Wal-Mart as they want yet it is still one of the biggest companies in the world. And why? If people REALLY cared, it wouldn't be. Because people like CHEAP stuff, regardless of how it is made.

No doubt, there are loads of people who choose cheap even when they are well aware of the problems behind this practice. Sometimes for financial reasons they have no choice, sometimes they do have a choice.

But my recollection of consumer research is that people will pay more for USA-made goods - or at least, they claim they will when surveyed. Consider how many people value domestic cars over foreign cars as an example.

So for the sake of argument, if there was more awareness about how cheap offshore goods (a) hurt workers in those countries of origin and (b) hurt workers in this country, where the manufacturing jobs are lost, then people might adjust their expectations of what cheap goods really are.

Then it becomes an age-old issue for me: which behavior is more heinous, hypocrisy or ignorance?

lynnie · Chanel

Suasoria wrote:

lynnie wrote:

Hate to say it, but corporate greed isn't the only problem. Consumer demand keeps a company afloat. When we live in a world where we expect and think and will only buy a shirt costs $10... then yea. Sweatshop. As many people can boycott Wal-Mart as they want yet it is still one of the biggest companies in the world. And why? If people REALLY cared, it wouldn't be. Because people like CHEAP stuff, regardless of how it is made.
No doubt, there are loads of people who choose cheap even when they are well aware of the problems behind this practice. Sometimes for financial reasons they have no choice, sometimes they do have a choice.

But my recollection of consumer research is that people will pay more for USA-made goods - or at least, they claim they will when surveyed. Consider how many people value domestic cars over foreign cars as an example.

So for the sake of argument, if there was more awareness about how cheap offshore goods (a) hurt workers in those countries of origin and (b) hurt workers in this country, where the manufacturing jobs are lost, then people might adjust their expectations of what cheap goods really are.

Then it becomes an age-old issue for me: which behavior is more heinous, hypocrisy or ignorance?

I agree about the Made in America thing. I think any company now that manufactures in America should make that very clear. People will pay a bit more.

As far as Wal-Mart..I think it's out there how their practices are. Those with the luxury of choice often don't shop at Wal-Mart. If you're low income.. it becomes harder. You feel it more and don't see the immediate benefit to paying a few dollars more for something. You just are even more poor. It's like a Me or Them thing. Everyone would have to boycott Wal-Mart for something to change.

I don't think there will ever be any big initiative to take these corporations down. Fact is that they are in the "too big to fail" category. We don't want Wal-Mart to fail- I think they are the largest private employer in the world. Over a million people. If their stock collapsed, billions of dollars would be lost. Of any company, it is probably the most norotorious and likely to be boycotted by people. But a lot of these companies do the same things to keep competitive pricing.

Teresa · Kate Spade

Metric wrote:

collegegirl5858 wrote:

Okay, I am apologizing ahead of time, as I get a little heated discussing human rights issues...

"....China, India or Bangladesh. Every product made in those countries can't possibly all be from sweatshops, can they?"

metric! YES! Good Lord, woman. Here are websites on this topic:
http://feminist.org/other/sweatshops/sweatfaq.html
http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/sweatshops/whattoknow.cfm
and..."I am mixed when it comes to shopping morals- I have no qualms about shopping at Walmart or buying things that may be from "sweatshop" countries. Rarely does that ever cross my mind when buying things. However, there are certain companies I won't shop at if I know something bad about that company."

Okay, I don't know what to say about that. I am not trying to be a bitch, who am I to judge you? I just can't understand your thought process here. Aye.

Its not that I do it intentionally, it just doesn't cross my mind when I'm shopping to look at the "Made in" label. I'm not conscious of it. Mostly, i think, because I am not really informed. I'm not pro-Walmart but I'm not exactly out there picketing either.

Thanks for the links, I would really like to know more about it and make myself a conscious consumer.

Good for you, you can have your head back now wink

kenzie · Chanel

lynnie wrote:

Hate to say it, but corporate greed isn't the only problem. Consumer demand keeps a company afloat. When we live in a world where we expect and think and will only buy a shirt costs $10... then yea. Sweatshop. As many people can boycott Wal-Mart as they want yet it is still one of the biggest companies in the world. And why? If people REALLY cared, it wouldn't be. Because people like CHEAP stuff, regardless of how it is made.
Now.. if we paid the fair price of things, and owned less and only what we needed... then I think the world would be a better place.

I actually get most of my clothes from work.. so I know where they're made and even the people that make them sometimes. I will buy a few other pieces here and there, and some secondhand. For other stuff, I tend to just shop in my neighborhood, so at least I'm supporting local business.

Oh, you are so right about the consumer demand thing. It's so frustrating! Many people are fully aware of these practices, but just don't care because it's cheap.

Another issue with cheap (ie, "fast fashion") is that it is viewed as disposable and that's exactly what people do with it- wear it for a season and then throw it away. And then it ends up in landfills, causing environmental issues. Fast, cheap fashion isn't just bad for the economy, it's bad for the environment! And while there are consignment stores and Goodwill, lots of people just don't take their clothes there.

Here's an article about it.

-- Edited by kenzie on Wednesday 1st of April 2009 08:24:10 AM

jah · Dooney & Bourke

This topic reminds me of a story I saw on one of the major news story primetime programs - it was about a story focused around the points of a Kenyan economist. After the break of news that one celebrity clothing line being made in Kenya was manufactured in a sweatshop, the factory was shut down. It had a huge negative impact on the community/economy and most of the people that worked there went from the factory with air conditioning, 3 meals a day, a bed to sleep in, a hospital and a salary to living hand-to-mouth. The point of the economist was that Americans try to push their lifestyle ideals on other countries, when the evolution point of these countries is at a different stage than America. The economist made the point that this is no different then America trying to push religious or political positions onto these countries. The same people that fight "sweatshops" also fight American government trying to push our political ideals on these countries, but there is essentially no difference. The overall point was that a poor standard of living for us, may actually be considered a good standard of living and opportunity outside of our society, so we shouldn't be pushing our agenda on these countries - the countries need to regulate themselves.

I agree with the point in principle - the countries do need to regulate themselves. That said, I have seen the other side - factories that provide good job opportunities and growth in depressed areas of 2nd and 3rd world countries. At my previous job at a shoe company, we had factories with better benefits than many in the US and I would like to see this happening more.

Suasoria · Chanel

I understand these arguments, but what I'm advocating is that U.S. corporations be expected to meet basic standards on human rights, child labor laws, minimum wages, safe workplaces, environmental protection, etc. when they are operating in other countries or outsourcing contracts.

Workers should be allowed to have restroom breaks. Someone should not be fired if they are too sick to come to work, or too sick to work a 15-hour shift, or cannot work for months without a day off. Workers should not be locked inside factories. Etc.

Certainly it's unfortunate when a corporation is asked to meet certain standards and instead chooses to shut down the plant because it's no longer as profitable as it once was, but this is not the fault of idealist dilettantes pushing an agenda. It's the fault of the company who refuses to comply, and instead moves their operation to an even more impoverished region, while leaving more depression behind them.

Hermes

lately, yes. I've become more aware, and think a bit differently about my purchases and their sources...