STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

RE: I have no friggin clue! *update*

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

So I just myspaced him this message...is this too much? well too late now already sent it! :)

I just wanna kinda clear something up about something you said to me yesterday...

I don't want you ever to feel like I don't want to put forth an effort w/ us. I think it's just hard since a) you live a little while's away from me and things gotta be planned in advance 2) your schedule is usually so crazy and you gotta sometimes just fit me in where you can and III) I live in c-town at (ahem) home...I'll invite you up here (which I was in the works of figuring something out for tom nite...but whateva ;) ) but...i think it just works better when I go up there...right?

trying to put my feelers out, and let you know "what's up" on my end! :) :)

xoxo
Lola Mack

crystal · Kate Spade

i think that sounds good lola! i like the a, 2, III too! way to keep it cute & funny while still getting ur point across. good luck!

blubirde · Chanel

That sounds fab, Lola! I'm glad you did it. What did he say in response or has he yet?

You kept it light-hearted but still got your point across - good work!

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

he read it about 5 minutes ago but still hasn't responded yet...I HATE that myspace had the "read" feature...but I love it too!

blubirde · Chanel

Oh god, me too. It always makes me so mad when I'm waiting for a response and I see that a person read something an hour ago. Urgh!!! But then I wish all my email had the same feature. It's a tangled web.

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

so he read it and then signed off?? wtf? no response?

I officially don't get him...

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

Subject:
Response

Body:So here's the deal.

Everytime I talk to you (phone or email)...I always get the vibe that you are waiting for me to ask you to come up here or generally do something. All I am saying is that if you want to get together or do something then it's OK for your to initiate that. I just don't want to start a precedent of me being the one that always has to be the activity director. I've been there and done that. Yes I am busy, and no I'm not going to send you my calander...but you can ask me if I am around or what my plans are for X time or X date. That's completely normal.

Yes..Boston is more approriate right now, so no worries there. Obviously we won't be having a 3some with your mother, so Beantown is the sex haven

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

so there's my answer...and there's the off vibe I get from him...glad it's cleared up...but I feel like he's constantly comparing me to his ex...which in turn makes him very hesitant. I dunno how I feel about this response...okaaayyyy...i guess I'll just start inviting myslef up to his apartment...I guess that's what he wants me to do. whatever.

I'm gonna sit on this one for a while and then respond. i'm kinda pissed.

-- Edited by Lola at 14:00, 2005-03-31

crystal · Kate Spade

quote:
Originally posted by: Lola
" Subject: Response Body:So here's the deal. Everytime I talk to you (phone or email)...I always get the vibe that you are waiting for me to ask you to come up here or generally do something. All I am saying is that if you want to get together or do something then it's OK for your to initiate that. I just don't want to start a precedent of me being the one that always has to be the activity director. I've been there and done that. Yes I am busy, and no I'm not going to send you my calander...but you can ask me if I am around or what my plans are for X time or X date. That's completely normal. Yes..Boston is more approriate right now, so no worries there. Obviously we won't be having a 3some with your mother, so Beantown is the sex haven "

yeesh, he sounds kinda agro, then the last line is like "ok, everything's cool". wtf?? i hate that he said "been there done that", how rude! i totally know what u mean about not wanting to invite urself to his place all the time, i mean how weird is that to do? my bf lives far from me & has a roomate so he comes to my place every weekend, but i do most of the planning and such since he comes to MY neighborhood & has no clue what there is to do. i usually come up w/ ideas & he picks what he wants. i don't feel like i'm "activity director", i feel like it's my responsibility to come up w/ some fun things to do since there's no way for him to know. sometimes he'll come up w/ general stuff that doesn't require much knowledge of my city (i.e. beach, hiking, etc.), but i always pick the locations. good luck girl & don't let this guy treat u rudely, u deserve WAY better than that!

Karina · Chanel

Honey, I think you need to date other guys!! You are putting WAY too much thought into everything he says!

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

so this is what I said back, in hindsight, i think i was too nice..I'll give him one chance though:

How I see it is that I want to spend time w/ you, you live in Boston, we are just starting out, until yesterday, I still wasn't even sure if you were seeing anyone else, I didn't really feel comfortable w/ inviting myself over...so yeah I was taking a cue from you. To be honest I really wasn't sure if you were really digging me, scratch that, of course you're into me, look at me ;) KIDDING. But seriously, I do have a tough time reading you. NOT that I'm saying that I've been the easiest read...I'm sure of the fact that I'm not.

Just try not to make assumptions as to how I'll be based on what your ex did...I can see how you may have thought that a pattern such as the same could happen again. But really it's just that, i don't really know Boston, you do. You live there, 'member?

I DO howerver appreciate your honesty and I hope you are the type who has an issue, confronts it, corrects it and moves on, because that is TOTALLY how I function! :)

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: Karina
"Honey, I think you need to date other guys!! You are putting WAY too much thought into everything he says! "

did you read his response though? don't you think he was a bit...uh...bitchy?

I'm gonna feel him out a bit more though, I don't think this one incident is enough to give up allll hope, right?

Karina · Chanel

Oh, I'm not saying to stop talking to him, but don't set your sights on him only....

Lola · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: Karina
"Oh, I'm not saying to stop talking to him, but don't set your sights on him only.... "

I know what you mean...I had just told him yeasterday that I wasn't seeing other people...if this all came out a day earlier I would have totally taken your advice ;)

blubirde · Chanel

I don't know, Lola, after thinking about it some more and seeing this here, which I didn't see when I responded to your email, I think Karina has a point. I might seriously consider going out with another guy, just to possibly put things into perspective. Right now he's the only guy you're seeing and he's the only person you're worrying about when you should be focusing on you, don't you think?

His responses were a bit on the insensitive side and that kind of thing leaves me cold. There's no need to be mean or rude. Especially since you've been nothing but nice to him.

What do you think about the possibility of seeing someone else? Forget what you told him yesterday. You just told him you weren't seeing anyone at the moment, you didn't make any promises about the future, right?

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I haven't wanted to say anything because I seriously don't know dating - totally clueless - but since other people are advising you to date other people, I wanted to chime in. I haven't liked this guy since he told you what to wear. It read as critical and demanding to me. Maybe because I dated a guy who always had these perfectly reasonable sounding outfit ideas (and you did ask and sometimes I did too) but it turned out to be the tip of the iceberg with his bitchiness.

It sounds like this guy keeps criticizing you and then giving you little tips to avoid his criticism. But then he criticizes you again anyway. He doesn't like that you don't make plans. So you make plans, and that's not good enough either. You don't like that he criticized you, so he tells you he had good reasons (which had nothing to do with you anyway) and then criticizes you AGAIN.

This whole thing has been him criticizing and you responding. That doesn't sound like fun at all! And I may not know dating, but I do know control freaks. This is their favorite pattern. It's how they work. You start giving in, saying this one thing is no big deal, because that's normal. And with a normal person you're fine (and I could be wrong and this guy could be wonderful and just human and having a bad day, like the rest of us). But with a control freak, you give in once and you've just proved to them that they need to have MORE control. They see it as "I was right." Not as "She's compromising..." because that critical type of person doesn't understand compromise. They see everything as a zero sum game.

Anyway, I may be reading WAY too much into a small thing. But you sound on edge, uncertain, and unsure of what kind of response you're going to get from this guy. This is how normal people usually react to someone who's really critical and controlling. So maybe your gut is trying to tell you something, and maybe you're not actually "safe" (I don't mean physically) with this guy. So I dont' know what's going on, because I'm not there, but maybe it's not such a bad idea to trust your gut on this one....

PS - that whole thing where you explain yourself (llike you did) but it doesn't seem to register is a control thing too. The other person somehow misunderstands and criticizes you for it, so you try HARDER to explain what you mean, and they almost get it, but they're still critical, so you try EVEN HARDER to explain... See the pattern? It's like when a baby throws its toy out of the crib, and cries until you give it to him, so he can throw it out of the crib again.... I don't know, maybe I overanalyze everything, though...

-- Edited by Dizzy at 18:56, 2005-03-31

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

i'm w/ dizzy and karina. i too have tried not to meddle, i even edited my first post to delete what my gut reaction to the situation was and just left it at telling you to trust your gut.

here's the thing lola, we truly love you and want only the best for you, so i may totally be dismissing this guy too early and if that's the case then oh well don't listen, but for what it's worth, here are my thoughts...

ever since you first told us about this guy, i've been worried--because it seemed like you were falling fast. and i didn't know if it was because you two just had an amazing connection or because you wanted to put the past behind you or what. but i thought let's just wait and see how things go, he could be great and totally into her too. but if that was the case, if he was falling as hard as you, then all this analyzing would have been unnecessary, because it just should not be this hard. you've been driving yourself crazy all day and i think it's because you're insecure about the status (exclusive or not) of your relationship. and here's the thing about getting guys to commit to an exclusive relationship: you shouldn't have to get them to do anything, this is such an early stage, i really feel like it should happen naturally (or at least more naturally than this). if you feel like you're walking on eggshells, that feeling is a WARNING SIGN. and i think that walking on eggshells feeling you're having is why it's been so hard for you to take karina's advice--to just relax and see where things go.

also, it could just be me but i found that "we're not gonna have a threesome w/ your mom, so beantown's the sex haven" comment crude and uncalled for. but whatever. oh and my opinion on the sex thing in general is this: it is such a personal decision and you should do it when you're completely comfortable, not when someone else/society says you should be comfortable w/ it. and if you do it before you're totally comfortable, you find yourself more insecure than you should be in any given situation. i'm not using "you" in a personal sense, just talking generally.

anyway, my bottom line is this: you don't even really know this guy. so PLEASE just try to take things slow to figure out if he's even worth all this effort.

we love you lola and are here for you no matter what.

Andrea Julia · Coach

Lola, I, too, have kept quiet on this issue. Now that everyone else is coming clean, I will, too. I haven't liked him since he told you "why don't you wear your Rock and Republic jeans with so-and-so shirt." Here's why: if he already knew you had R&R jeans, it seems kind of controlling. If he didn't know you had them, even worse. What if you only had cheaper jeans? What if R&R jeans were way out of your budget? A person like me would feel compelled to go out and buy some then. Clothes are just my thing so I would feel uncomfortable if I went someplace wearing Gap jeans if someone specifically said Rock and Republic. I also don't like guys who know too much about women's fashion. It makes me feel like they are around too many women.

The second thing I didn't like was the adding of girls to his profile. It showed a lack of dedication to your relationship. This isn't necessarily a dealbreaker, but it definitely is a sign that you should continue to see other people.

Strike three: The references and comparisons to his ex. When you are with someone you are romantically involved with, you should pretend your ex doesn't even exist. Why do people think the person they are dating is interested in hearing about their ex? Like, maybe one talk about your ex is in order, just to say what happened or whatever, but to blame everything on him/her or to use them to prove a point or defend a behavior? Not nice.

Also, I don't like the tone he is taking with these e-mails today. It does seem kind of controlling.

That being said, if he is usually a great guy, don't let anything anyone says sway your opinion. We have really only hear the bad about him. You obviously are not going to post every day to tell us about the nice phone conversation you had or the romantic, but uneventful, weekend you had with him. I am judging him just on these 4 things.

One more thing: you mention that you told him you're not seeing anyone else; did he say the same? Did you both decide that from this point forward you weren't seeing anyone else? Is he your boyfriend? If you are not actually boyfriend/girlfriend, I think you should tell him that you thought about it and you think you should see other people as well until you become boyfriend and girlfriend (I have NO idea how to word it though. The way I just said it would surely get a defensive response or seem like an ultimatum. Somebody help me out here). You may feel more calm about things if you just see him as one of the guys you are dating.

Good luck with everything!

-- Edited by Andrea Julia at 20:29, 2005-03-31

Hermes

I second what Dizzy and the other girls are saying about the red flags. I've been getting a bad vibe from this guy writes, and I've avoided saying anything because I didn't want to burst your bubble cause you've been trying so hard to try to make it work. The fact that it's as uncomfortable as it is at this point in your relationship is not a good sign. When you first posted this thread, my initial reaction was to move on and not invest so much of your time/interest in him... I'd be backing away if I were you.