STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

Interesting Economy Article

Kelly · Hermes

I can definitely see this. Even though I haven't lost my job and realistically still have money to spend, I just feel guilty shopping when I know so many people are really bogged down by financial issues.

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

Another way to look at this, though, is if people who DO have money to spend stop spending money, the economy is even worse off. I don't feel guilty for having a secure job and having money to spend, I look at it as an opportunity. I never thought I'd be able to buy my own place, but because of the housing market crash, I am able to. I'm also able to take advantage of all of the sales and deals that stores are offering. I feel for the people who HAVE had to cut back, but my doing so wouldn't help anyone. And if everyone cuts back, it will only hurt the economy eve more.

jrhampt · Kenneth Cole

"Another way to look at this, though, is if people who DO have money to spend stop spending money, the economy is even worse off. I don't feel guilty for having a secure job and having money to spend, I look at it as an opportunity. I never thought I'd be able to buy my own place, but because of the housing market crash, I am able to. I'm also able to take advantage of all of the sales and deals that stores are offering. I feel for the people who HAVE had to cut back, but my doing so wouldn't help anyone. And if everyone cuts back, it will only hurt the economy eve more."

I totally agree with this. We bought a house in September; if the housing market hadn't crashed, we wouldn't have even considered doing so. And of course now we have been spending money at Lowe's and furnishing the place.

lynnie · Chanel

gingembre1 wrote:

Another way to look at this, though, is if people who DO have money to spend stop spending money, the economy is even worse off. I don't feel guilty for having a secure job and having money to spend, I look at it as an opportunity. I never thought I'd be able to buy my own place, but because of the housing market crash, I am able to. I'm also able to take advantage of all of the sales and deals that stores are offering. I feel for the people who HAVE had to cut back, but my doing so wouldn't help anyone. And if everyone cuts back, it will only hurt the economy eve more.

Agree totally.
Those with money need to spend it or the economy won't recover. Our economy is somewhat based on people having and wanting more than they need.

Kincali · Dooney & Bourke

jrhampt wrote:

"Another way to look at this, though, is if people who DO have money to spend stop spending money, the economy is even worse off. I don't feel guilty for having a secure job and having money to spend, I look at it as an opportunity. I never thought I'd be able to buy my own place, but because of the housing market crash, I am able to. I'm also able to take advantage of all of the sales and deals that stores are offering. I feel for the people who HAVE had to cut back, but my doing so wouldn't help anyone. And if everyone cuts back, it will only hurt the economy eve more."

I totally agree with this. We bought a house in September; if the housing market hadn't crashed, we wouldn't have even considered doing so. And of course now we have been spending money at Lowe's and furnishing the place.

We are also looking to buy our first house too. I think more than anything this economy is showing how ridiculous inflated pricing has become in the last five years.

When we first moved to my dh's hometown I couldn't believe the prices of homes. Tiny shotgun houses were priced at $175+ and marketed as "own a piece of historical property." Nothing like having to walk through your bedroom & bathroom to get to the kitchen. But damn if the fireplace isn't from 1905!

As for clothing, I just got a shipment from J.Crew and everything was compressed in sad little plastic packages stamped MADE IN CHINA. I thought, I'm an idiot paying $175 for a rough cashmere sweater so thin I can look through it and it cost them about $5 to make. I took the whole order back yesterday:(

I wish things were made as well as they were even 10 years ago. I have a Banana Republic cashmere sweater that after eight years has finally blown out at the elbows. No piling still after all this time. But I bought a cardigan from them 3 years ago and there is a gaping hole in the wrist seam and it has pilled everywhere.

I

Suasoria · Chanel

Well, this brings me back to the conversation we had when gas prices were up. I don't choose to "stimulate the economy" by spending money on consumer goods. This stimulates corporate retail, but it doesn't do much for the segments of the population who are struggling most. Big companies are still going to lay off workers and close stores/plants because their bottom line is most important.

On the other hand, I do think there's a positive effect if we shop locally, spend that disposable income at small businesses instead of chains, eat at mom-n-pop restaurants, support people who are self-employed, etc.

What's interesting to me about the current economic climate is that this time last year, luxury goods were still selling well, and the wealthy didn't see any reason to curb their consumption, but that's not the case right now.

Kelly · Hermes

While I realize that the people who have money should spend it, and I know that is a fact, I still feel guilty. I've been spending more money on food, entertainment, and services (like classes, massages, etc). Honestly, I still feel guilty, though. I joke about it sometimes, like "just doing my part to stimulate the economy" and while I know that it is actually true, I can't help but feel bad about it when I'm getting my nails done and my friend has just lost her job.

-- Edited by ttara123 at 18:54, 2008-11-17

jj · Kate Spade

Suasoria, I am so glad you reminded me about supporting local enterprises. I need to remember that more!

Overall, it bugs me that the media tries to make everything a trend - "it's become cool to pay less rather than more" is really annoying. How about saving up for something you really love? Or how about a trend to budget so you don't live beyond your means?

Anyway, we are spending less because our savings aren't near where they should be, but I am not doing it because I feel bad or guilty.

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

I definitely agree with shopping "locally." Luckily the grocery store closest to me now is an independently, locally owned store, and there are a lot of great little businesses in my area.

Elle · Hermes

Suasoria wrote:

Well, this brings me back to the conversation we had when gas prices were up. I don't choose to "stimulate the economy" by spending money on consumer goods. This stimulates corporate retail, but it doesn't do much for the segments of the population who are struggling most. Big companies are still going to lay off workers and close stores/plants because their bottom line is most important.

On the other hand, I do think there's a positive effect if we shop locally, spend that disposable income at small businesses instead of chains, eat at mom-n-pop restaurants, support people who are self-employed, etc.

I agree totally. And I live in an area where people are pretty opposed to too many large non-local chains, so we have quite the variety of local options. I imagine it would be more difficult to do this if you lived in a small town or somewhere without much in the way of local businesses.

I think it's funny that the economy has cycled up and down pretty reliably once a decade or so (sometimes more violently than others) and yet every time people seem so .... surprised! Because it's the economy tanking that makes you not need a $3k handbag

?

We aren't big on buying things we don't really 'need' anyway, and have been self-denying since before it was cool

. We've upped our contributions to local charities since they take such a hit in tough economic times, but otherwise we're trying to view this as an opportunity - for younger-ish folks trying to get ahead financially (for retirement, buying property, etc) this could turn out as an otherwise unexpected boost for the long term. It's going to facilitate some financial moves we would have not been able to make if the economy had kept accelerating at it's previous rate, thanks (for us) to our relatively recession-proof jobs/future jobs. I do feel a little guilty talking about how this might benefit us when so many are suffering though, aside from shopping.

Shello · Kenneth Cole

Suasoria wrote:

Well, this brings me back to the conversation we had when gas prices were up. I don't choose to "stimulate the economy" by spending money on consumer goods. This stimulates corporate retail, but it doesn't do much for the segments of the population who are struggling most. Big companies are still going to lay off workers and close stores/plants because their bottom line is most important.

On the other hand, I do think there's a positive effect if we shop locally, spend that disposable income at small businesses instead of chains, eat at mom-n-pop restaurants, support people who are self-employed, etc.

What's interesting to me about the current economic climate is that this time last year, luxury goods were still selling well, and the wealthy didn't see any reason to curb their consumption, but that's not the case right now.

While I don't wholly disagree with you, I think it's important to point out that big businesses and their employees will be those hurt most by the financial crisis, not the local businesses or mom-and-pop chains, for the sole reason that over 90% of big businesses operate using credit, while small businesses do not. (Small businesses however will likely be hurt by Obama's tax policies, so I guess it might even out.) The layoffs they are incurring are not caused by corporate greed or because their bottom line is "most important", but because they don't have a choice. If you can't get money to operate, you can't pay your workers. It's truly that simple for a lot of companies, especially since they can't foresee a rise in profits anytime soon.

I don't mean to defend big company ethics, but I hate to see a lot of entities and people blamed for factors beyond their control, which is happening at astounding rates as of late.

Also, to what Elle said, I don't think that this is the same as a typical business cycle, as it was "caused" much more than just "happened". Even in recessions, typically some industries flourish while others decline, and while it takes time for people to be absorbed by growing industries, it is fairly easily sorted out. I think this will be different. Even if it was a typical cycle, there has never been a global financial decline, such as this, so we are still treading on new ground.

kenzie · Chanel

Suasoria wrote:

Well, this brings me back to the conversation we had when gas prices were up. I don't choose to "stimulate the economy" by spending money on consumer goods. This stimulates corporate retail, but it doesn't do much for the segments of the population who are struggling most. Big companies are still going to lay off workers and close stores/plants because their bottom line is most important.

On the other hand, I do think there's a positive effect if we shop locally, spend that disposable income at small businesses instead of chains, eat at mom-n-pop restaurants, support people who are self-employed, etc.

What's interesting to me about the current economic climate is that this time last year, luxury goods were still selling well, and the wealthy didn't see any reason to curb their consumption, but that's not the case right now.

I agree with this. I do my best to shop locally for both food and other things. Lancaster has tons of boutiques, galleries, a really nice market where I can get fresh food and sushi-grade fish, and plenty of locally owned restaurants and bars. So I frequent those. We recently bought a couch from a local furniture store. Instead of going to Home Depot for things, we go to the local hardware store down the street.

There is also an official "buy handmade, buy local" movement where I live and I'm absolutely thrilled about that! I'll be attending the City Arts Market where I'll be doing most of my Christmas shopping.

-- Edited by kenzie at 08:15, 2008-11-18

-- Edited by kenzie at 08:16, 2008-11-18

Elle · Hermes

Shello wrote:

Also, to what Elle said, I don't think that this is the same as a typical business cycle, as it was "caused" much more than just "happened". Even in recessions, typically some industries flourish while others decline, and while it takes time for people to be absorbed by growing industries, it is fairly easily sorted out. I think this will be different. Even if it was a typical cycle, there has never been a global financial decline, such as this, so we are still treading on new ground.

I didn't say it was the same as a typical business cycle - I said downturns in the economy have happened before, relatively frequently, for various reasons over the years. And every time, people are so flipping surprised, as if they expected the economy to continue to grow steadily forever. That doesn't mean it's not way worse this time, that doesn't mean it wasn't 'caused'. But even though we don't know when or how or why the next down cycle will occur, I think it's shortsighted to believe that it just won't occur at all. You have to plan on how you're going to make it when times aren't so good - making it when times are good is easy, y'know?

Aside from that, in my opinion what we're seeing is two downturns at once - one caused by the crazy banking/credit industry, and one that usually accompanies our elections. I think they're doing a great job of feeding each other, but in the end it might end up being a good thing the credit/banking crisis happened so close to the election. GWB isn't exactly the person I'd choose to fix this .....

Shello · Kenneth Cole

Elle wrote:

Shello wrote:

Also, to what Elle said, I don't think that this is the same as a typical business cycle, as it was "caused" much more than just "happened". Even in recessions, typically some industries flourish while others decline, and while it takes time for people to be absorbed by growing industries, it is fairly easily sorted out. I think this will be different. Even if it was a typical cycle, there has never been a global financial decline, such as this, so we are still treading on new ground.

I didn't say it was the same as a typical business cycle - I said downturns in the economy have happened before, relatively frequently, for various reasons over the years. And every time, people are so flipping surprised, as if they expected the economy to continue to grow steadily forever. That doesn't mean it's not way worse this time, that doesn't mean it wasn't 'caused'. But even though we don't know when or how or why the next down cycle will occur, I think it's shortsighted to believe that it just won't occur at all. You have to plan on how you're going to make it when times aren't so good - making it when times are good is easy, y'know?

Aside from that, in my opinion what we're seeing is two downturns at once - one caused by the crazy banking/credit industry, and one that usually accompanies our elections. I think they're doing a great job of feeding each other, but in the end it might end up being a good thing the credit/banking crisis happened so close to the election. GWB isn't exactly the person I'd choose to fix this .....

I'm sorry if it sounded like I misinterpreted you. I wasn't attempting to analyze what you said - I just wanted to jump off of that point. I completely agree with you that it's shortsighted to think the economy won't have a downturn, but I think a surprising amount of people are either shortsighted, or just so busy that it catches them offguard and they're not prepared.

I also agree that it's a very good thing GWB won't be President for much longer, as he had a terrible habit of ignoring his economic advisors. I am still hesitant though, as there does not seem to be a very clear way out of this. I'm currently getting my master's in economics, and despite how big an issue this is, there aren't too many plans being offered by anyone. One of my professors keeps fuming about how so few of the Nobel prize winners still alive have said anything at all, and many of the prominent economists have either been very vague or kept silent.

Elle · Hermes

Shello wrote:

Elle wrote:

Shello wrote:

Also, to what Elle said, I don't think that this is the same as a typical business cycle, as it was "caused" much more than just "happened". Even in recessions, typically some industries flourish while others decline, and while it takes time for people to be absorbed by growing industries, it is fairly easily sorted out. I think this will be different. Even if it was a typical cycle, there has never been a global financial decline, such as this, so we are still treading on new ground.

I didn't say it was the same as a typical business cycle - I said downturns in the economy have happened before, relatively frequently, for various reasons over the years. And every time, people are so flipping surprised, as if they expected the economy to continue to grow steadily forever. That doesn't mean it's not way worse this time, that doesn't mean it wasn't 'caused'. But even though we don't know when or how or why the next down cycle will occur, I think it's shortsighted to believe that it just won't occur at all. You have to plan on how you're going to make it when times aren't so good - making it when times are good is easy, y'know?

Aside from that, in my opinion what we're seeing is two downturns at once - one caused by the crazy banking/credit industry, and one that usually accompanies our elections. I think they're doing a great job of feeding each other, but in the end it might end up being a good thing the credit/banking crisis happened so close to the election. GWB isn't exactly the person I'd choose to fix this .....

I'm sorry if it sounded like I misinterpreted you. I wasn't attempting to analyze what you said - I just wanted to jump off of that point. I completely agree with you that it's shortsighted to think the economy won't have a downturn, but I think a surprising amount of people are either shortsighted, or just so busy that it catches them offguard and they're not prepared.

I also agree that it's a very good thing GWB won't be President for much longer, as he had a terrible habit of ignoring his economic advisors. I am still hesitant though, as there does not seem to be a very clear way out of this. I'm currently getting my master's in economics, and despite how big an issue this is, there aren't too many plans being offered by anyone. One of my professors keeps fuming about how so few of the Nobel prize winners still alive have said anything at all, and many of the prominent economists have either been very vague or kept silent.

Not at all! I really like to shoot the shit about this kind of stuff, so I really like throwing things back and forth with people who have a working knowledge of what's going on. I didn't mean to jump on ya

.

I think part of the reason nobody is saying anything is because they're all afraid they don't know the whole story, and they're likely right. So as complicated as it appears already, there's probably more facets that have yet to be revealed by the government. I can understand not wanting to attempt shooting at a moving target as an economist, especially considering how fond our government seems to be of the ol' bait and switch. Maybe Obama will gather up all those Nobel prize winners to write some decent economic policy proposals!

kmd · Kate Spade

kenzie wrote:
There is also an official "buy handmade, buy local" movement where I live and I'm absolutely thrilled about that! I'll be attending the City Arts Market where I'll be doing most of my Christmas shopping.

That is so great! As a very small business owner (just me!), this situation has hit me hard. I'm not going to go into all of the depressing details, but it really sucks. Quite a few of my fellow small business owners have had to close down their shops this year, luckily it's not to that point for me. Hopefully some of us can get through this.

There are a lot of us out there where our businesses are our only income, and it definitely makes an impact on our economy. We can't buy nearly as much as we used to, you know? It's a domino effect.

I wish there was a movement in my area like you mentioned, kenzie! Unfortunately, there just isn't. I try to do my part by encouraging people to buy handmade locally or online (a lot of us are really reasonable in price and offer free shipping, etc.), but it's really hard to get into people's heads!

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