STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

Mary Kay LeTourneau

bumblebee · Dooney & Bourke

i also heard that there's some kind of hilarious fake wedding registry somewhere on the web, but i haven't seen it. ick.

halleybird · Hermes

Andrea Julia · Coach

I'm probably going to be crucified for saying this, but I think this means that their love is real. After all they have gone through and after this child turned into an adult, they still want to get married. I think that says a lot. If they had only met at a later time in their lives, everything would have been fine. When I had first heard of this case years ago, I thought it was really gross, but now that their love has endured the test of time and separation, I really have a tough time seeing what she did as wrong. I'm not saying everyone should go out and sleep with underage people, but I really think this is a case of bad timing.

doveanunu · Dooney & Bourke

I think what happened was wrong...however, now that the male is of age I think it is fine they are getting married.

Mia · Kate Spade

I pretty much agree with Andrea Julia. Don't have a problem with their marriage and also think prosecuting her and keeping them apart for so long was probably kinda futile.

jen · Kate Spade

"Mommy, how did you and daddy meet?"

"Well honey, I was his teacher when he was 12 and I had sex with him while I still had a husband and kids, then I went to jail, then I got out, then I had you and now we're married."

Child:

Collette · Chanel

quote:
Originally posted by: jen
""Mommy, how did you and daddy meet?" "Well honey, I was his teacher when he was 12 and I had sex with him while I still had a husband and kids, then I went to jail, then I got out, then I had you and now we're married." Child: "

HAHAHAHAHHHHAA!

RyanJ · Coach

She may really love him, but she is also really screwed up. I am okay w/ a may-december romance, but I think she got a little carried away. Gross gross gross.

doveanunu · Dooney & Bourke

what is interesting is that while the boy was underage...some still had sympathy for Mary. I doubt they would have had sympathy if it was an underage girl and a male teacher.

Mia · Kate Spade

Doveanunu - That's actually fairly correct in my case. I also didn't go by gender alone - when I say I have sympathy I mean *for this specific* case. I'm not making some blanket statement about it's OK to have sex with underaged people as long as they're boys.

Do you know how many men I know who make jokes about how much they wish something like that had happened to them when they were 12? Again - that doesn't make it OK in every situation (so if you're going to argue with me don't say I am saying it's OK to have sex with kids as long as they're boys, because I'm not!)but I don't know a single woman who would say the same.

bumblebee · Dooney & Bourke

i think this case is pretty complicated, but from what i understand about the cycle of abuse and how boys deal with it very differently than how girls deal with it, it makes perfect sense to me that this boy would want to marry ms. letourneau. that allows him to think of himself as something other than a victim, if he can convince himself and others that the relationship is "real" and not abuse-based (ie., that he is "choosing" her). i think that he probably didn't get very effective counseling and support in the intervening years while she was in prison, and i feel really sorry for him. i think she ruined his life--once she got inside his head, he didn't have much of a chance. he hasn't developed the ability to "choose" anything other than what she has chosen for him.

on the flip side, it is fairly obvious how this "destiny" story helps letourneau's image in the media as well. she doesn't have to cop to being a child abuser because it was really "destiny" all along--the timing was just bad (although she does seem seriously disturbed, so maybe is not consciously thinking of her PR issues).

RyanJ · Coach

quote:
Originally posted by: bumblebee
"i think this case is pretty complicated, but from what i understand about the cycle of abuse and how boys deal with it very differently than how girls deal with it, it makes perfect sense to me that this boy would want to marry ms. letourneau. that allows him to think of himself as something other than a victim, if he can convince himself and others that the relationship is "real" and not abuse-based (ie., that he is "choosing" her). i think that he probably didn't get very effective counseling and support in the intervening years while she was in prison, and i feel really sorry for him. i think she ruined his life--once she got inside his head, he didn't have much of a chance. he hasn't developed the ability to "choose" anything other than what she has chosen for him.
on the flip side, it is fairly obvious how this "destiny" story helps letourneau's image in the media as well. she doesn't have to cop to being a child abuser because it was really "destiny" all along--the timing was just bad (although she does seem seriously disturbed, so maybe is not consciously thinking of her PR issues). "

Very well put.

manhattanmonkey · Kenneth Cole

quote:
Originally posted by: jen
""Mommy, how did you and daddy meet?"
"Well honey, I was his teacher when he was 12 and I had sex with him while I still had a husband and kids, then I went to jail, then I got out, then I had you and now we're married."
Child:
"

Muahahahah.

So sad, so true, and so funny.

-- Edited by manhattanmonkey at 19:03, 2005-02-16

doveanunu · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: Mia
"Doveanunu - That's actually fairly correct in my case. I also didn't go by gender alone - when I say I have sympathy I mean *for this specific* case. I'm not making some blanket statement about it's OK to have sex with underaged people as long as they're boys.
Do you know how many men I know who make jokes about how much they wish something like that had happened to them when they were 12? Again - that doesn't make it OK in every situation (so if you're going to argue with me don't say I am saying it's OK to have sex with kids as long as they're boys, because I'm not!)but I don't know a single woman who would say the same. "

oh no, I actually agree with you. I have sympathy for her and don't know why. Maybe it is like you said and this is a "special case" ......
However, I can just imagine what it would be like to have a 12yr old son get involved with a teacher! I would have little sympathy then, I suppose.

halleybird · Hermes

quote:
Originally posted by: bumblebee
"i think this case is pretty complicated, but from what i understand about the cycle of abuse and how boys deal with it very differently than how girls deal with it, it makes perfect sense to me that this boy would want to marry ms. letourneau. that allows him to think of himself as something other than a victim, if he can convince himself and others that the relationship is "real" and not abuse-based (ie., that he is "choosing" her). i think that he probably didn't get very effective counseling and support in the intervening years while she was in prison, and i feel really sorry for him. i think she ruined his life--once she got inside his head, he didn't have much of a chance. he hasn't developed the ability to "choose" anything other than what she has chosen for him. on the flip side, it is fairly obvious how this "destiny" story helps letourneau's image in the media as well. she doesn't have to cop to being a child abuser because it was really "destiny" all along--the timing was just bad (although she does seem seriously disturbed, so maybe is not consciously thinking of her PR issues). "

I agree totally...and I find absolutely nothing romantic about this story. He was actually even younger than 12 when they met for the first time, by the way. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. If she were a man and Vili had been a little girl, she would still be in jail and nobody would support her.

Also, how come nobody ever talks about how badly she f*d up her other kids' lives? She had 3 or 4 children before having Vili's kids...I don't believe they are still in contact with her. She is disgusting.

-- Edited by halleybird at 20:23, 2005-02-16

Mia · Kate Spade

From what I've read about this case (they also published a book in France and I read about it) it sounds like the (former) kid doesn't see himself as a victim. I think his own mother has accepted the reality of the relationship for quite awhile. Keep in mind that if I have on the one hand someone telling me that he's a victim, and the person himself telling me he's not, I'm probably going to believe the person themselves, whatever the situation.

I don't find anything particularly 'romantic' about this case and I think MKL is a selfish flake (because she had a husband/kids that she left for Vili) but I don't think anybody was served by criminalizing her.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

gotta disagree w/ you on this one mia. re: your point about believing the person himself as opposed to others, i just can't see how an eleven year old would know his own mind well enough to be able to give consent. i understand that he's older now but he was taken advantage of at an early age and his decision making process has been warped as a result. i heartily agree w/ bumblebee's analysis, she was much more articulate about it than i could be but here's what i keep coming back to--he was just a kid. and the tragic irony is that most sexual molesters brainwash their victims in exactly the same way mkl has--getting the victims to think they "wanted it."

i also think that as a society, we have a duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves--and no group is less able to protect themselves than children. they are at the mercy of adults around them and so i certainly think there was a point in criminalizing mkl's behavior--she took advantage of a little boy. and imo, that's the bottom line.

Mia · Kate Spade

Oh it's OK I knew my opinion wasn't going to be popular! The now-adult kid says he wasn't taken advantage of. Many people see this as evidence that he has been brainwashed/abused into not seeing his victimhood. I just believe him, is all, especially after all the other info I got after reading about the case. It's just personally too black and white to say to me "it's impossible this adult can be remembering his experiences accurately" - unless you have some kind of specialized, first-hand knowledge of him.

mizzle · BCBG

i'm with mia on this one... we can criticize ms. letourneau, and we can feel bad for her children, but the boy who had the affair? to say that he had no ability to make judgments because he was age 11 or 12 is to give children too little credit. i think not all, obviously, but plenty of children are able to make decisions at that age. i feel bad for the lady's children and family, but i don't see how people can assume the boy was manipulated just because of his age when we don't know him and when we know that he's back with her now.