STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

alb · Marc Jacobs

movies that are deemed "depressing"

cc · Marc Jacobs

Oh, this drives me bananas! It's fine to say that a movie is depressing, but it is close-minded to dislike a movie solely because it was sad or upsetting. I do think that a lot of people really only want to go to the movies to be entertained (I often hear things like "Why would I go to see a movie about war/death/whatever when I see that on the news everyday?") but it's ridiculously easy to find out what a movie is about and to get a sense of it before watching it. I also hate it when people criticize a movie because it was about something unpleasant or something they disagree with.

Roger Ebert's golden rule, which he pulls out whenever people say something like "How can you give a movie about Hitler or a serial killer a good review, is:
It's not what a movie is about, but HOW it is about it that matters.

-- Edited by cc at 09:36, 2005-01-25

alb · Marc Jacobs

OMG thank you! I'm so glad that someone else finds this annoying. Can't a topic that is sad or disturbing be interesting, and aren't interesting things entertaining also? You know? I wouldn't say that Hotel Rwanda was "entertaining" b/c that might sound a little insensitive (b/c of all the suffering it portrayed) but I enjoyed the acting and was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Anyway, I love that quote by Roger Ebert, thanks for sharing!

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

I think that people are closed minded because they want to walk around life with blinders on. Hotel Rwanda is a perfect example of this. I want to see that movie not only because I love Don Cheadle, but I also want to know what happened there and what those people went through.

That is also a lot of the reason why I think Black Hawk Down is such a great movie. It is a true story of a day in the life of a group of very brave soldiers.

blink · Coach

My in-laws think just about every formula movie they see is "good" and trust me, they see pretty much every major movie that hits the box office. But then a couple years later, while strolling through Blockbuster, they will see titles and wonder aloud, "did we see that one, I can't remember." I would rather see a few movies I remember than dozens that are meaningless.

I got off topic though, my point is that I think so called depressing movies are mostly those that make you think. Some people just want to be mindlessly entertained and they don't want to think or be affected. To each their own, but I prefer non-formulaic (sp?) movies every time.

Mia · Kate Spade

alb, I know *exactly* what you're talking about and I hate it, too! I remember going to see Three Kings with a couple of grad student friends and when it was over they bitched for half an hour about how "violent" it was. As if somehow that made it a bad movie. Hello?! I was about WAR - violence is involved in war, usually. Same thing with the whole "depressing" bit. There's something so off-putting about people who only want to go to a movie theatre and be mindlessly entertained for 90 mins. I mean, why even bother? Why not vegetate in front of the TV? It's like going to see an art exhibition and being mad because it's not all pink or something.

-- Edited by Mia at 20:21, 2005-01-25

alb · Marc Jacobs

quote:
Originally posted by: Mia
"alb, I know *exactly* what you're talking about and I hate it, too! I remember going to see Three Kings with a couple of grad student friends and when it was over they bitched for half an hour about how "violent" it was. As if somehow that made it a bad movie. Hello?! I was about WAR - violence is involved in war, usually. Same thing with the whole "depressing" bit. There's something so off-putting about people who only want to go to a movie theatre and be mindlessly entertained for 90 mins. I mean, why even bother? Why not vegetate in front of the TV? It's like going to see an art exhibition and being mad because it's not all pink or something. -- Edited by Mia at 20:21, 2005-01-25"

Exactly. I love your art exhibit analogy and you're right, these people may as well go watch tv--cartoons for that matter--if they want to only see things that are exclusively happy. That mindset makes me think of the way society was controlled by the gov't in the book "Farenheit 451" in which the only tv shows that existed were those that were "happy and pleasant", i.e. like game shows as such.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

dissenting opinion here...I do understand what you guys are talking about, it IS annoying when people insisit on only seeing the crappy action movies or flock to the "chick-flick" movies. There are movies that are sad/depressing that I think are worthwhile to see...esp. when based on a true story, such as Hotel Rwanda. Mystic River was terribly depressing but I thought it was a worthwhile film b/c it explored some really interesting human dynamics...but I can understand why people wouldn't want to see a sad movie. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be entertained at the movies, or wanting to go see a movie to escape from reality, which at the moment is pretty damn sad and depressing.

I went to see Million Dollar Baby recently and I came out of it thinking, yeah, it was a good movie, but I didn't really enjoy it. I mean, I can admire something for its beauty, quality, artfulness, good acting ('Baby' has all of this) but I really can't say that I got that much enjoyment out of it, or that it left me thinking or anything. It was just a sad story, period. And I'm kind of sick of it. I wish there were more lighthearted or at least hopeful movies out there that were quality. I don't think that a movie with a happy ending or a hopeful ending is automatically mindless entertainment. But it would be nice to have a break from the barrage of terribly depressing pap that is out there right now. Maybe I'm just a bourgeouis pig but I DO go to the movies to be entertained, I won't pretend otherwise.

-- Edited by DC Shopper at 12:54, 2005-01-26

-- Edited by DC Shopper at 12:58, 2005-01-26

lsubatgirl · Gucci

maybe there was something in the movie that affected them. I mean most people don't think the mandy moore movie how to deal is depressing but I could never watch it again because I was watching that the night my grandmother died and it will just bring back those memories.

Mia · Kate Spade

It's not like I *never* go see movies to be entertained. Hell, I went to see 'Legally Blonde' at the theatre. My problem is just when people ALWAYS make their decisions based on "will it make me smile and contendedly drool into my popcorn"? It's not like serious or arty (or whatever word you want to use here) movies are the equivalent of brussels sprouts - good for you but not fun at all. I am *more* entertained by movies that have some depth and art to them.

I guess this boils down to "what is your definition of 'entertaining' "?

-- Edited by Mia at 12:58, 2005-01-26

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: Mia
"It's not like I *never* go see movies to be entertained. Hell, I went to see 'Legally Blonde' at the theatre. My problem is just when people ALWAYS make their decisions based on "will it make me smile and contendedly drool into my popcorn"? It's not like serious or arty (or whatever word you want to use here) movies are the equivalent of brussels sprouts - good for you but not fun at all. I am *more* entertained by movies that have some depth and art to them. I guess this boils down to "what is your definition of 'entertaining' "?-- Edited by Mia at 12:58, 2005-01-26"

Me, too, definitely. A funny, entertaining, or silly movie can still be high quality. But a "funny" movie of low quality I don't find to be entertaining at all.

I have a friend who is very sweet but really really closeminded. She won't see movies with subtitles or even with people who have accents. We don't really ever go to the movies together b/c she's always trying to get me to go see some crap movie that's going straight to DVD.

At the same time, I can't blame people who avoid sad and violent movies, even if they are critcally acclaimed, etc. I find myself doing that all the time. I am a big time crier and hate crying in public I also am the type of person who will be traumatized by certain images - I tend to keep thinking about them and being bothered by them...I am a total wussy-girl. so for me to see a sad movie it has to be really good and have some sort of point to the sadness. That's just my personal reason for avoiding certain movies. I think it's legit -shrugs-

-- Edited by DC Shopper at 13:09, 2005-01-26

cc · Marc Jacobs

The point wasn't that people who don't want to see depressing movies are stupid or uncultured or anything like that. In her original post, alb was talking about people who say things like: "Really, it was good? It just seems SO DEPRESSING?"

We (at least I think most of us) were simply saying that to say a movie is not good because it is sad or upsetting is close-minded. That's why I included that Roger Ebert quote - because content and quality aren't the same thing.

I don't really have a problem with people who only want to see light movies because they find them entertaining. But if someone tells me that they went to see Three Kings and thought it sucked because it was violent or that they thought Boogie Nights was terrible because it was about porn and drugs or that hated The Sweet Hereafter because it was really sad, I'm probably going to make a judgment about their intelligence or at least their analysis skills.

My pet peeve, which I mentioned above, is people who clearly hate things that are violent or upsetting or immoral and who can't separate their emotional reaction to the film from their assessment of it, yet go see the movie anyway and then complain about it. It is so easy to find out what a movie is about before seeing it so I'm not sure why people wouldn't bother doing this, especially if they know that certain things are going to affect their ability to enjoy the film.

-- Edited by cc at 14:26, 2005-01-26

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

well, yes, cc, i did know that Million Dollar Baby was probably going to make me cry, but it got such good reviews that i went to see it. however, my assessment of it was that while beautifully acted and written, when you got down to it, it was nothing more than a melodrama. melodrama for the sake of melodrama really has no point, in my opinion. and that's why i didn't love the movie.

i don't think that many people think that a movie's worth is proportional to how sad or depressing it is. i think maybe alb's coworker just didn't want to see something that would remind her of a tragic and recent genocide.

i also don't think that someone who disliked a movie because it was too sad or too violent is stupid or has bad analytical skills. to me it's just all about personal taste. i always read reviews before seeing a movie and sometimes i'm still disappointed or surprised after seeing it...what's the big deal? to me it's just all about personal taste.

i hope this sort of makes sense? not trying to rant here, just putting in an alternative viewpoint.

-- Edited by DC Shopper at 15:04, 2005-01-26

cc · Marc Jacobs

quote:
Originally posted by: DC Shopper
"
i also don't think that someone who disliked a movie because it was too sad or too violent is stupid or has bad analytical skills. to me it's just all about personal taste. i always read reviews before seeing a movie and sometimes i'm still disappointed or surprised after seeing it...what's the big deal? to me it's just all about personal taste.
2005-01-26"

Oh DCS, my post wasn't directed at you, it was more a response to what alb's coworker said. I got the impression from what alb said that she was talking about people who hear someone recommend a movie, go see it, think it's sad, and then say that the movie wasn't good.

I know it's about personal taste so if some said they didn't like something that's fine. I thought the whole argument here was about someone saying that a movie is bad because it's depressing, which is different from someone saying that they didn't enjoy it because it was depressing. And obviously a movie's worth isn't proportional to how sad it is because there's a list of bad tear jerkers a mile long.

I don't really go to that many depressing movies either, and I have a really tough time watching violence, but I wouldn't say that a movie is bad just because it is violent or sad. I cannot stand watching Resevoir Dogs and didn't really enjoy it, but I'm not going to say that it's a bad movie based just on the fact that I found it upsetting.

And on the topic of melodrama for the sake of melodrama, well I'm the wrong person to argue with about that because I worship Douglas Sirk.

-- Edited by cc at 15:29, 2005-01-26

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

put up your dukes!

just kidding, it's all good

cc · Marc Jacobs

haha DCS! I'm kind of a movie nerd and I'm a stickler for making people explain their assessment of something instead of accepting their "It sucked" or "It was great" response. It's probably the result of haning out with persistent dorks a lot. My brain doesn't get to do much criticism since I've been out of school so I feel the need to do at least a quick critical analysis of every movie, tv show, book and artwork I'm exposed to, otherwise it would turn to mush!

Seriously though, Douglas Sirk is awesome and aside from some social commentary, his movies are pretty much melodrama for the sake of melodrama. That movie Far From Heaven was an homage to his films.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

huh, i've never seen his movies...maybe next time i go to the vid store i'll keep an eye out for him in the classics section...if i think i can handle a good cry that day, that is!

Mia · Kate Spade

*gets the popcorn*

Awesome, a fight between cc and DCS will be MORE entertaining than any movie!

Anyway. That person who won't see subtitled movies or movies with people who have accents? I've got noooo problem at all making judgements about that person's intelligence. She needs a slap, DCS!

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

i KNOW. you want to hear something even worse? i met her for lunch the other day and she wouldn't go to California Tortilla because she doesn't like "ethnic food". har! she literally only eats "american" food.

she has some issues with trying new things.

but she's one of my friends from H.S., you know the kind you don't have much in common with but you just have that bond...i just can't bring myself to slap her though.

anyhoo, if i rent a Sirk flick I'll start a new thread and we can all duke it out!

cc · Marc Jacobs

quote:
Originally posted by: Mia
"*gets the popcorn*
Awesome, a fight between cc and DCS will be MORE entertaining than any movie!
"

hahaa. Another Ebert quote - actually I this was one of Siskel's things, which Ebert adopted after his death - is that often with bad movies he says "Is this movie more interesting than a documentary of the same actors having lunch?"

I know a lot of people don't respect Roger Ebert but I think in general he has some pretty good notions.

DCS -- I think there is a very very slim chance that a Sirk movie could make you cry. You'd be more likely to laugh because they are so incredibly melodramatic. They can come off as totally dated, which they are to some extent, but Sirk purposely exaggerated everything, even the sets, to draw attention to the artificiality. But even if you don't delve into the subtext, they are pretty entertaining movies. I think his most famous is Imitation of Life with Lana Turner, which has a race bent, but I really love Written on the Wind. Sirk had a big influence on Fassbinder so if you're into Fassbinder at all that will give you a sense of what these movies are like.