STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

honey · Gucci

so i totally stole this from another

lsubatgirl · Gucci

Its so true. Its a shame too that you do spend all this money on jeans and sweatshirts and when you step back that's what they are just jeans and sweatshirts.

atlgirl · Gucci

LOL this makes me feel much better because I pretty much only wear Gap jeans. I love fashion and will pay for what I consider quality clothes, but for me, jeans are jeans, and if Gap continues to fit me, I'll continue to buy them (often on sale). *s*

FashionFreak · Kenneth Cole

It's funny how people put on their expensive jeans and a cotton tee and think that they are dressed up. I wish people would really dress up when they go to restaurants. I usually do and always feel overdressed because people around me are wearing tennis shoes and jeans. Few weeks ago we went to a nice restaurant and I was wearing a black blazer and a camel skirt with some nice boots and at the table next to us a girl was wearing an oversized sweatshirt, jeans and dirty sneakers. The restaurant does not have a dress code, but it's one of the nicer restaurants. She could have at least changed her shoes. People have become so lazy to put something together, they just throw on a pair of jeans and they're ready to go. I was born in Russia and lived there till I was ten and people always dressed up there to go to town, restaurants, etc. Even people that didn't have much money would wear their best. We always dressed up for church, my mom always was in heels. I still do I wear nice skirts and heels and people look at me weird, like I'm trying hard. I was just brought up this way. I love dressing up when I'm going some where nice.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

hmmm. thanks for posting, honey, interesting discussion. i'm reading the rest of the discussion now. i agree that a lot of jeans are overpriced, but at the same time, they can be, because jeans have turned into such a basic. People don't just love denim because everyone else is wearing it. People love denim because it looks damn good on and is so versatile. People who want to dress creatively and differently can still do so with jeans, whereas the people who don't really care about fashion can just put them on and look good and be comfortable. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with dressing to appear that you haven't tried. From an aesthetic point of view I often think that look is much fresher and pleasing than outfits that look very contrived.

I just bought a pair of True Religion Joeys (for $140) because in all honesty, they looked amazing on. I dress casually almost every day now, so it's a good investment for me. And yes, I shop at Gap and at mall stores, I guess that makes me a bourgeouis follower...or not. Maybe I just put together the best outfits I can with the money I have. I dress to my taste.

I guess I don't understand what these posters wish that people would do, since they seem to be both disparaging of the GAP and of the fashion houses. Vintage shopping is all well and good but I've never found anything that fit right, smelled right, or looked right on my body at thrift stores. Maybe it's different when you live in a huge city like NY where you have more choice. I like and appreciate how people dressed in the 40s and 50s, but that clothing also spoke a lot to the times...women were constricted in their choices and it showed in the fashions of the times. Proper, ladylike, and impeccably tailored. But they still all looked the same. Each decade has its uniform. Times change, fashions change, and at the moment, jeans are king.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

caveat: I agree that you should still dress appropriately to go to church, nice dinner, theater, etc.

in some trendier restaurnants/clubs jeans are ok but I do think people should dress to the occasion.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

i see what she's saying and to a certain extent i agree, i du think the pendulum seems to have swung from taking pride in the effort that went into your appearance to now taking pride in how effortless your look is. i once read an article that referred to this same issue as "the pajama-fication of fashion."...but...at the end of the day...i love my sevens and COH and juicy. they're certainly not all wear but it's part of my wardrobe and i'm glad. and i can't speak for anyone else but those jeans are worth the $ (to me) because nothing fits or looks better (on me). when the craze first started i was lucky that i had a connection and paid 60% below retail but honestly, after looking at myself in those jeans, i'd have gladly paid full price (and now do). jeans shopping used to be such torture, and all of a sudden there were these jeans that felt like they'd been made for me! it was awesome! anyway, i digress. all i'm trying to say is...yes, we dress more casually but is that so wrong? as long as you feel great about yourself, isn't that what it's all about?

fashionista L · Coach

I definitely agree, but I know personally I don't think of myself as dressed up wearing jeans and sweatshirts because I spent a lot of money on them. I feel dressed up when I am. I continue to wear skirts and cute tops and camis and thats what I consider dressed up. When I am wearing jeans its a casual day!

Prissy · Dooney & Bourke

honey thanks for that post and I do agree however I am guilty. Why is it people, including myself, do feel like your more dressed-up in your designer jeans than your Gap jeans. I would never ever consider wearing a basic sweatsuit but I'll wear a Juicy one. Labels why do we get so hung up on them. It only leaves us with less cash in our checking accounts.

honey · Gucci

i agree with about 1/2 of what she's saying. on the one hand i definitely think that are our culture has become way too casual. not that i'm some sort of standard bearer b/c i'm definitely guilty of throwing on jeans when i should be wearing pants or a skirt and rationalizing it by saying that they're nice (i.e. expensive) jeans.

but on the other hand it's a bit of a conundrum. i think juicy and the whole explosion of designer sweats is the perfect example of this problem. when they first came on the scene it was kind of refreshing to see sweats that didn't make you look schlubby. but they were also expensive (and even more expensive now) so i understand the rationale where you want to wear them as much as possible to get your money's worth. so it can be difficult to determine when it's just too much.

eta: prissy, i wish i knew the answer. i think it's almost ingrained into our heads that more money automatically means better. so it's not a big leap to assume more expensive clothes are "nicer." i guess the same reasoning could explain the logo phenomenon that kind of goes hand in hand with expensive clothes (esp. jeans since almost always have some sort of branding on them). it's like it's not enough for us to know that are jeans are pricey and therefore "better" it's like the logo is a not so subtle way of letting others know that you did put time & effort into your appearance and chose to wear the expensive/nice jeans. (does that make sense)

-- Edited by honey at 15:18, 2005-01-21

rar210 · Marc Jacobs

I can totally understand the point she is making. However, jeans are the "thing" right now and if I can put them on and feel good in them, I'm gonna wear them. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not a jeans, tennis shoes, and sweatshirt kind of girl. Chances are if I have that on, I'm heading to the grocery and straight home. But I'm "dressed up" everyday at the office. When I go out I'll throw on great fitting jeans, a cami, blazer, etc. with my pointed toe heels and I'll get tons of compliments from my husband. He see's me in my trousers and button ups all the time. It's nice to have a sexy look and mine happens to include jeans.

Mia · Kate Spade

I own a few pairs of expensive jeans because, as esquiress said, they look damn good and I'm willing to pay for that. I think that, for me, being "dressed up" is about looking good and not necessarily about labels or prices. If I am wearing a pair of jeans that fit perfectly and look good, I can feel dressed up in that outfit if I also have heels and a dressier top on.

Is this just a rehash of the old "oh, things used to be so much better back in the olden days" thing? For better or for worse, large swathes of North America are now official "dress down" zones. Anyone who's travelled outside of N America will have seen this - we are the most casually dressed people on earth. On the one hand I feel the poster's pain - yeah, it's nice to see everyone dressed up and taking an interest in their clothes and trying to put something together that say something about them etc., but on the other hand, I have to say that the egalitarian North American in me realizes that while we may not look as snazzy in our sweats doing our grocery shopping, I'd never get tut-tutted here for it the way I have been in Paris.

I think this also has to do with the L.A.-ification of the US/parts of the world. Hollywood is so uniquitous these days, and people everywhere take their style cues from the starlets in US magazine and Jessica Simpson on her show etc. L.A. just happens to be a kind of lux.casual place - Juicy Couture couldn't be anything other than California-born, for example. That L.A. aesthetic is everywhere now. It's tempting to have a knee-jerk "ugh" reaction to that but the truth is, I often *like* the L.A. thing. I like Juicy Couture. I like hipster jeans and heels and little girly tops. I also think it's possible to be unique and still wear these things. It's the difference between wearing a 'uniform' (baby pink Juicy velour top and bottom, Uggs/mukluks, whatever the 'it' bag of the moment is, and a pair of designer sunglasses) and wearing parts of the uniform with pieces/touches that are unique to you.

Eh. I'm being long-winded. Live and let live, in a fashion sense.

I submitted an article for this site a few days ago that really touches on this subject so...yeah.

DC Shopper · Dooney & Bourke

mia, it's totally the L.A.-ification of N. America, you're right. i like L.A. style too, if it's not too over the top.

i guess i just feel like so many elements of the fashion world are elitist and judgemental. who cares if people throw on jeans everyday? the nice thing about the Gap is that it is egalitarian. most people can afford to shop there, especially with sales. some people just don't give a hoot about dressing well, they focus on other stuff. sure, they end up all looking the same, but not everyone wants to tout their 'specialness' and uniqueness through fashion. And that's ok by me, as long as they aren't exposing any gross body part that's not supposed to see the light of day, I'm not going to bitch about how unfashionable they are. it's their choice.

i don't know how many people really feel dressed up in jeans and sweats. i think it's more that people have started treating every event as casual, and therefore, it's acceptable to them to wear jeans to places you normally have to dress up for. i don't like that, but i don't think it's as widespread as the fashion-y people fear.

mia, can't wait to read your article.

mizzle · BCBG

what exactly is this girl pining for? the 1950s? i'd take the '00s over the '50s any day, even if it means people aren't looking spiffy in suits and dresses all the time.

i think $140 jeans are nicer than gap jeans. maybe not $100 nicer, but nicer. i don't think anyone is about to show up to an opera or a fancy restaurant in their sevens because they spent money on them. maybe it's not the fashion that's become more casual, it's just that we have so many more casual things to do in our daily lives, like netflix and the gym and blogs and internet boards. it's like esquiress said about the pajamafication, and it fits in with the cocooning syndrome. supposedly in the next few decades none of us will leave the house at all, so maybe nudity will be the new juicy.

honey · Gucci

the la-ification of the world kind of bothers me. not b/c i hate la style (i actually think my style is way more la than it is ny) but b/c it makes it so much harder to be find stuff that's new/different. i feel like the whole cult of celebrity has lead to a world where millions of people think fashion begins and ends with jessica simpson and seven jeans. so it's just the creation of a new little box that people don't look outside of. imo, it's kind of sad, b/c you would think that with all our technology and the internet it'd be easier to find stuff that was newer and different. for example i probably have about 50 sites bookmarked and most of them carry the same frigging brands. granted i'm one of those people who views my clothing as a physical extension of my personality, but i just get so frustrated by the lack of diversity.

honey · Gucci

quote:
Originally posted by: mizzle
supposedly in the next few decades none of us will leave the house at all, so maybe nudity will be the new juicy. "

lol!

Lilykind · Hermes

I see thsi girl's point, but I agree that she's pining with nostalgia without understandding the social ramifications of what would happen should we all strat dressing "nicely" again. You could argue that since the women's movement, fashion has become more informal in general.

As an Angeleno and a relatively recent East Coast ransplant...the L.A-iification of America does disturb me somewheat (probably because at heart I'm an East-Coaster and I think in general east coast urbanites dress in a more sophisticated manner than west coast ones). But at the same time, I'm totally a participant in the style because it wroks for my lifestyle. I own a decent amount of jeans and I'm a Juicy lover. However, I don't really go to a whole ton of places where I would be required to dress up so it makes sense for me to invest in these types of clothes. I spend the money because these pieces fit my lifestyle and they just flat out fit me better. Yes, technically it's jeans and a sweatshirt, but my jeans are clean, my hoodies are always clean and well-fitting. I don't feel dressy in them, that's not the point for me. I look presentable because my clothes haven't gone through the shredder, but I don't deny for a second that it's a really casual look. And guess what...most of my jeans are high end. Why? They fit, like other girls have said already, so much better than most other jeans I have tried on. I think they're typically worth the money because of that, but then I usually get them on sale.

Quite frankly, I'm in college and I run all over the city every day trying to get stuff done. I do not want to be doing it in some pinafore or with a crinoline under my skirt. Or even in a pair of pants that would restrcit my movement. I had to wear a button down and dress pants for an intervie on Wednesday while running across the city to multiple interviews and I spent the whole day wanting to rip the shirt and the pants right off. I've worn all the stuff from Colonial times on up at least once when I was doing historical re-enactments. I have to say that the our fashion is a direct response to the times that we live in. We are either constantly on the go and can't be bothered with frills and furbellows or else we're hiding in our houses and have no reason to start dressing spiffy.

I remmeber when someone wore a Juicy suit to an industry cocktail party two years ago...now I thought THAT was entirely inappropriate. There are just some places where you need to dress appropriately. At that party...jeans and a nice top would've done it. That's what I and about 50% of the other people were wearing that day. However, when I do go out to nice restaurants or whatever, I try to dress up, because while I am a relatively casual dresser, I do not aspire to be an innappropriately dressed person.

(oh btw...the dior homme pants being avaiable at vintage stores cracked me up...because I've seen NWT Seven A-pcokets and AG Legends at The Wasteland out here.)

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

here's something else that just struck me--it seems like people simultaneously want to feel special while still fitting in. for example, people who like to dress up feel like they can't because of the LA-ification, pajama-ification, whatever you want to call it of our society today. but if you want to dress up, what's stopping you? so what if there's a girl in the restaurant wearing jeans and dirty sneakers? why let her "bring you down"? why are jeans such a threat? and if everyone's dressing up all the time, i could easily see (and history's shown) a kind of pervasive 'keeping up w/ the jones' mentality--one could argue that that's exactly what the poster is criticizing girls who wear sevens for playing into. either way, casual or formal, the trick is being able to be proud of what you're wearing w/o feeling like you let anyone else dictate.

i guess my point (if i even have one) is to wear whatever you want and do it proudly. because in my experience, if people want to criticize, they will. if your bag's expensive, well that opens you up to charges of being "frivolous." if your casual wear is expensive, then that means you're silly or stupid for spending $ on "just" jeans. and if you don't make an effort, then you're slothful or lazy. so if you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, then why not just wear what makes you happy and to hell w/ anyone that has a problem w/ it?

anyway, our discussion reminded me of a really funny quote that was on a card i once bought for a friend, i can't remember the wording exactly but outside it said something like "i'm not just all about fashion and shopping, i can discuss philosophy and political theories" and then open the card and it says "and how all of it relates to fashion and shopping" that card cracked me up. it was so me, so us!

Mia · Kate Spade

quote:
Originally posted by: honey
"the la-ification of the world kind of bothers me. not b/c i hate la style (i actually think my style is way more la than it is ny) but b/c it makes it so much harder to be find stuff that's new/different. i feel like the whole cult of celebrity has lead to a world where millions of people think fashion begins and ends with jessica simpson and seven jeans. so it's just the creation of a new little box that people don't look outside of. imo, it's kind of sad, b/c you would think that with all our technology and the internet it'd be easier to find stuff that was newer and different. for example i probably have about 50 sites bookmarked and most of them carry the same frigging brands. granted i'm one of those people who views my clothing as a physical extension of my personality, but i just get so frustrated by the lack of diversity. "

I totally agree with this. I have had that exact frustrating experience, going to different websites and finding...exactly the same stuff at each one. Being a sheep is the norm, fashion-wise, and regardless of what income bracket you're in - if you're wearing the Target-based uniform, or the Prada-based uniform. If it's boring and similiar to everyone else, it's boring and similiar to everyone else, expensive or not.

Also, esquiress, what you said re: who cares if someone else is dressed sloppily or in Sevens or whatever. I mean, it seems like that woman's post could basically boiled down to the same old "that's not how I do it so it sucks" mentality that seems fairly universal. It's not like I've never caught myself looking down at how someone else was dressed. The trick is realizing it's *your* problem, not theirs, and not letting yourself be bothered by stuff that ultimately doesn't matter at all (like how a stranger is dressed). I've also been on the receiving end a number of times as well and it sucks, people making judgements about who you are based on your handbag, or your jeans. It's the difference between thinking "that person's outfit is boring as hell and I would never wear that" (which is a personal, aesthetic judgement, and basically OK, if a bit mean) and "that person's outfit is boring so that person must also be boring and lame".

Blathering again. This is a good thread!

EDIT: DC Shopper, please don't get your hopes up over my article. Really.

-- Edited by Mia at 17:28, 2005-01-21

Elle · Hermes

This is a really great discussion! Anyway, here's my :

I have absolutely no problem with Juicy or jeans or even dirty sweatshirts for that matter. The real issue is APPROPRIATENESS! It doesn't matter what you wear, as long as it is appropriate - age-wise, situation-wise, body-wise, etc. If you lead a casual lifestyle, by all means wear casual clothes. If you lead a professional lifestyle, then wear professional clothes. It is when the line between what is and is not appropriate gets blurred that there is a problem.