STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

travelgirl · Kate Spade

Spnoff of Kitty's Q from Career and Ed

Kelly · Hermes

That's a sticky situation. Maybe you could convince him to make it a group trip? Then, you could go...but of course not just a "couples trip," because the boss would be left out.

Why does the boss want to go to LV if he doesn't gamble? There certainly are attractions there, but I couldn't see going to vegas if I knew I wasn't going to spend any money actually gambling.

If it was just a friend, I think I would be a little uncomfortable but let him go. But you're right - since this man is his boss, he'll still feel "under his rule" even when they're not in the office. I don't know what I would do

laken1 · Hermes

I agree with you. I don't really think it's a matter of trust - I just don't know why they have to go off to LV. It seems to me that newly divorced guy could pretty easily find other single / new divorced guys to go to LV with him - does he not have any friends? Even if he recently relocated, etc his old friends could meet him there so i think it's strange. I'd even have less of a problem with it if it was one of your DH's old friends that recently got divorced & he wanted to go lick his wounds / hang out with someone familiar. I have been on married girl trips where everyone was on the same page & my DH doesn't have a problem with that & neither do I the other way around. However, your DH doesn't know how this guy will act in that situation (I'd have to assume pretty wild though) & although I don't assume your DH would just "go along" with whatever, it might put a strain on their working relationship if he was looked upon as a stick in the mud. You know?

I wouldn't like it. I don't think it speaks to the character of your husband - like if you trust him just let him go...I think when you are married you don't put yourself in a situation where you might become uncomfortable. Case in point - I have a group of friends I used to go to Destin with every summer, some single, some married (I was single). Some of the married ones were doing things they shouldn't have. Now that I'm married I won't go anymore because I just don't want to be put in that situation & don't want to know / be a part of a trip like that - even though me going doesn't mean I'd be doing the same. Also I don't want DH to even have a thought in his head that I might be doing something I shouldn't (I met him on one of these trips so he is painfully aware of what went on...)

ETA: Does you husband ever travel for work? I guess I wonder if he'll be traveling with him for business at some point & then he'll know how he is on the road. If that makes sense.

-- Edited by laken1 at 17:35, 2006-07-09

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

Here was my train of thought: "Hmm, handsome newly divorced man wants to go to Vegas but he doesn't gamble... What does he intend to do there, exactly? Probably not go see Circque du Soleil."

Did your DH have a response for your point about how the boss doesn't gamble? Did they have a plan for stuff to do while they were there? (Maybe the new boss loves to eat at expensive restaurants and/or go shopping, and if your DH is into that too, I guess I could see how a trip like that could be innocent enough.) Or was DH just throwing the idea out there to see what your take would be?

Vegas (and Destin, for that matter... I've heard stories similar to laken1's about that place) can be very fishy. Temptations abound, and it would be really easy to get pressured (especially by one's boss) into doing something you'd normally ever do because you're "in the moment" (and maybe a little not-sober) and imbibed with the what-the-hell-it's-Vegas attitude. I agree with the others; it's important for everyone on a trip to be "on the same page" to minimize trouble.

Oh, and plus, you've never met this guy, so you don't know what he's like. Your DH probably wouldn't be too pumped about you going to Vegas with a newly divorced woman who doesn't gamble that he'd never met, either.

-- Edited by Eurodaisy at 08:50, 2006-07-10

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

My DH would not be going to Vegas if I was in this situation.

Reasons Why Not:

1. You've never met this guy.. You don't know him or trust him.

2. He is single, DH is married. They are going to be on different agendas while on this trip.

3. DH gambles.. This guy doesn't.. Again, they will have different agendas..

4. There really is no "reason" for this trip. (I have let my DH go on long weekend trips for Bachlor parties, College and Pro Football games, and Myrtle Beach golf trips. But there are always pre-planned activities set up in advance and I know, for the most part, where they are going to be and what they are going to be up to.) This trip is just a little too open-ended for my liking.

*Just a side note, I am not a jealous person. And my answer is still no. That should tell you something. :)

luckylily · Gucci

Outside of the single/married issue, I think your DH should consider his work relationships. I personally think that to a certain degree work relationships should stay at work and be semi-separate from friendships. Of course, it is great to be friends w/ your coworkers and socialize with them outside of work. However, I think there is a fine line w/ your boss. There are just things I don't care to share w/ my boss. Like it or not, what one does in their personal life can potentially change the way your boss sees you and your ability to do your job effectively. Further, if your DH and his boss become Vegas buddies, that could create resentment from other coworkers.

Typically, "temptation" arguements don't really work for me because I think my DH can control what he does enough to resist any potential temptation. However, I am curious as to what your DH and boss think they are going to do in Vegas if boss doesn't gamble? Cirque de Soleil? The amusement park at Circus Circus? Hit the Forum shops? Try out the dessert buffets at all the Casinos?

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

this reminds me of the situation esquiress's friend had a while back, where her boyfriend wanted to go on a singles' cruise with his guy friends. It's like, even given the fact that you completely trust him, it still seems weird for a married or committed man to go on a trip in an atmosphere that is heavily, consciously geared towards casual hookups and sex (with the exception of things for a particular purpose, like bachelor parties or whatever, like the other girls said.) I think you have every right to feel uncomfortable with the situation.

laken1 · Hermes

I'm really surprised no one has taken the other side of this situation.

blubirde · Chanel

laken1 wrote:

I'm really surprised no one has taken the other side of this situation.

Okay, I will. I wouldn't dream of telling my boyfriend he couldn't go on a trip like that. I would definitely tell him my opinion but I can't imagine me telling him he could or could not do a thing. Maybe that's the difference between marriage and boyfriends but still... I do agree that I wouldn't like it and I'd wonder what they would do but I trust my boyfriend and I know he would never cheat. And that's pretty much all there is to it.

Now, if asked what I thought about the trip, I'd point out some of the things Luckylily pointed out (about friends vs. work), I'd talk about the cost vs. the gain, and I'd mention that they might not have a lot to do together since they wouldn't be interested in the same things.

So yeah, I wouldn't want him to go but I wouldn't ever tell him not to go. He can do what he wants and I may not be happy about it but I'll be damned if he ever tries to tell me I can't do a thing. Does that make any sense?

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

blubirde wrote:

I wouldn't dream of telling my boyfriend he couldn't go on a trip like that. I would definitely tell him my opinion but I can't imagine me telling him he could or could not do a thing. Maybe that's the difference between marriage and boyfriends but still...

So yeah, I wouldn't want him to go but I wouldn't ever tell him not to go. He can do what he wants and I may not be happy about it but I'll be damned if he ever tries to tell me I can't do a thing.

I think there would be an appreciable difference in the situation if it was travelgirl's bf instead of her husband (not to put words in your mouth, travelgirl, but just for argument's sake).

When you are married, each of you has made a promise to each other to not only act right (as in, remain monogamous) but to respect the other's reasonable feelings and wishes. And, also, presumably the reason you got married is because you felt like the other person's feelings and wishes have been (mostly) reasonable in the past and will continue to be reasonable in the future. (Of course, people do change over time, but that's another story.)

Until you are married, you are at an in-between stage with someone... not wholly independent, yet not totally "tied down" either (if that makes any sense). But once you are married, you give up some of the independence that you would have had if you were still dating. It's not as though you are agreeing for someone to be the boss of you, because that would imply that you don't have a choice in the matter. You always have a choice about how you'll behave and the individual decisions you will make, but in a marriage, you agree to conform your behavior (to a point) to a way that makes the other person reasonably comfortable and happy. And, in exchange, the other person agrees to do the same for you.

When two people are dating, I feel they have more of a right to say, "Take me as I am, or not at all. If you don't like the decisions I make, you don't have to stay." But marriage requires compromise and flexibility... too much has been promised and committed to have an attitude like that.

I think all that travelgirl was looking for was confirmation that her objections were appropriate and not out of line. (FYI: I posed this question to my DH to see what his take on the situation was, and he agreed with her... and he is definitely an "independent" guy.) Even if not every wife/SO would have the same hestitations, I think hers are justified, and worthy of her husband's respect.

travelgirl · Kate Spade

Eurodaisy wrote:

blubirde wrote: I wouldn't dream of telling my boyfriend he couldn't go on a trip like that. I would definitely tell him my opinion but I can't imagine me telling him he could or could not do a thing. Maybe that's the difference between marriage and boyfriends but still... So yeah, I wouldn't want him to go but I wouldn't ever tell him not to go. He can do what he wants and I may not be happy about it but I'll be damned if he ever tries to tell me I can't do a thing. I think there would be an appreciable difference in the situation if it was travelgirl's bf instead of her husband (not to put words in your mouth, travelgirl, but just for argument's sake). When you are married, each of you has made a promise to each other to not only act right (as in, remain monogamous) but to respect the other's reasonable feelings and wishes. And, also, presumably the reason you got married is because you felt like the other person's feelings and wishes have been (mostly) reasonable in the past and will continue to be reasonable in the future. (Of course, people do change over time, but that's another story.) Until you are married, you are at an in-between stage with someone... not wholly independent, yet not totally "tied down" either (if that makes any sense). But once you are married, you give up some of the independence that you would have had if you were still dating. It's not as though you are agreeing for someone to be the boss of you, because that would imply that you don't have a choice in the matter. You always have a choice about how you'll behave and the individual decisions you will make, but in a marriage, you agree to conform your behavior (to a point) to a way that makes the other person reasonably comfortable and happy. And, in exchange, the other person agrees to do the same for you. When two people are dating, I feel they have more of a right to say, "Take me as I am, or not at all. If you don't like the decisions I make, you don't have to stay." But marriage requires compromise and flexibility... too much has been promised and committed to have an attitude like that. I think all that travelgirl was looking for was confirmation that her objections were appropriate and not out of line. (FYI: I posed this question to my DH to see what his take on the situation was, and he agreed with her... and he is definitely an "independent" guy.) Even if not every wife/SO would have the same hestitations, I think hers are justified, and worthy of her husband's respect.

Eurodaisy-you took the words out of my mouth. This is exactly how I feel.

UPDATE-I have asked pretty much every female I know about this and I kid you not, every single person I talked to said they would say no to this too. I think my husband, knowing how strongly I feel about this, has decided to drop it. I have told him of my survey results and I think he now realizes its a lost cause and it is not the right thing to do. We may go to LV as a couple and maybe new boss will meet up with us-maybe not. Anyone want to be fixed up with this guy? Maybe if I can just find him a cool girl, then we will no longer have to worry about this!!!! LOL...

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

Sounds like your DH heard you out and is willing to compromise -- good for him!

I'm glad everything's turned out alright.... I was hoping it would.

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

Eurodaisy wrote:

I think there would be an appreciable difference in the situation if it was travelgirl's bf instead of her husband (not to put words in your mouth, travelgirl, but just for argument's sake). When you are married, each of you has made a promise to each other to not only act right (as in, remain monogamous) but to respect the other's reasonable feelings and wishes. And, also, presumably the reason you got married is because you felt like the other person's feelings and wishes have been (mostly) reasonable in the past and will continue to be reasonable in the future. (Of course, people do change over time, but that's another story.) Until you are married, you are at an in-between stage with someone... not wholly independent, yet not totally "tied down" either (if that makes any sense). But once you are married, you give up some of the independence that you would have had if you were still dating. It's not as though you are agreeing for someone to be the boss of you, because that would imply that you don't have a choice in the matter. You always have a choice about how you'll behave and the individual decisions you will make, but in a marriage, you agree to conform your behavior (to a point) to a way that makes the other person reasonably comfortable and happy. And, in exchange, the other person agrees to do the same for you. When two people are dating, I feel they have more of a right to say, "Take me as I am, or not at all. If you don't like the decisions I make, you don't have to stay." But marriage requires compromise and flexibility... too much has been promised and committed to have an attitude like that. I think all that travelgirl was looking for was confirmation that her objections were appropriate and not out of line. (FYI: I posed this question to my DH to see what his take on the situation was, and he agreed with her... and he is definitely an "independent" guy.) Even if not every wife/SO would have the same hestitations, I think hers are justified, and worthy of her husband's respect.

This is wordly exceptionally well and I agree with every word!

I am a pretty independent woman and while dating would do as I pleased and would hope that a bf would actly freely and do as he pleased as well.

Once we got married.. It is totally different. I definately would run it past my DH if I wanted to have a girls day or girls weekend. And I expect that he would ask for my permission (bad word) or if I had objections to go out with the guys for the night or the weekend.

NCshopper · Hermes

I agree with everything Eurodaisy said. However, I will never tell my husband that he can or cannot do something. I totally think it's true that getting married puts a different spin on things because of that level of commitment and the respect that should be there. If he was going to do something that I really didn't like, I would tell him exactly why it would bother me and I would think that after explaining it and having a discussion about whatever the issue is, that he would respect my opinion and my feelings enough to not do something that made me uncomfortable. I just know that if DH were to ever tell me that I could or couldn't do something that it just wouldn't go over well with me.

Anyway, travelgirl--I'm glad your DH decided not to go. I think you were totally justified in being skeeved out by the situation. If my DH had wanted to do something like that, I wouldn't have been okay with it for all the reasons everyone else listed. It's not a jealous or insecure thing, but the reasons for the trip just seem...I dunno....silly, I guess. Glad it worked out!

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

NCshopper wrote:

I will never tell my husband that he can or cannot do something.

If he was going to do something that I really didn't like, I would tell him exactly why it would bother me and I would think that after explaining it and having a discussion about whatever the issue is, that he would respect my opinion and my feelings enough to not do something that made me uncomfortable. I just know that if DH were to ever tell me that I could or couldn't do something that it just wouldn't go over well with me.

If the marriage is a healthy one where the two individuals care about each other and respect one another's feelings and opinions, neither person should ever have to say to the other, "You can't do that." Telling someone that they are "not allowed" to do something implies that you maintain control over his behavior and that there will be tangible, predictable consequences if he decides to "disobey."

Ultimatums are not positive... constructive discussion is. And, most of the time, once everyone has shared, the "right" choice will be apparent, and no mandates will be necessary.