STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

laken1 · Hermes

Unconditional / non-judgemental friendships....

Mandy · Kate Spade

I think that with your friends you should not judge. You can give them your opinion, but you should love them no matter what. I think that you can not like some things that they do but still support them as a person.

I had this situation with my best friend and my now ex-husband. She was having an affair with a married man and my husband was furious that I could still be friends with her. I have been friends with her for 10 years and wasn't going to throw that away over a bad decision. I love her but I don't have to love everything that she does. My husband said all kinds of horrible things about her and it really bothered me. I was sort of torn, because some of the things he said were true, but she was my friend and I definitely didn't think it was ok for him to be so involved. Because of that I stopped telling him everything because I didn't want to hear his negativity. He made me feel like by choosing to support my friend I was supporting adultry. I don't agree, I certainly didn't encourage her to do it. But I was there to listen and I was prepared to be there when things fell apart to help pick up the pieces. (That actually never happened- he got divorced and now they are getting married. I worry about her, but they have a wonderful relationship. So who knows.)

atlgirl · Gucci

(i'm torn in the whole "vault" issue - do you share everything with your spouse, even things your friends tell you in confidence or keep it within your friendships?)

God, no! What my friends tell me in confidence is told to me, not my husband. I do tell him things sometimes, but certainly I don't feel compelled to tell him *everything*. And he doesn't tell me everything - his BF has gone through a divorce and is having some issues with a recent dating situation, and I only know the barest details about the current situation...which is perfectly okay. When his BF went through the divorce, the friend would call and DH would be on the phone with him for *hours* and I didn't need to know all the gory details from the friend's side - I had enough from the wife's side (we are friends with both of them). Not knowing all the details also kept us from trying to "take sides" in their divorce.

That said, there are some girlfriends I don't share things with (that I ordinarily would) because I know it goes straight to the husband, and I don't need the husband knowing my business.

I guess I don't have a lot of friends that "screw up", so to speak...yeah, we might have done some dumb stuff when we were younger, but we don't cheat on our spouses/SO's, we don't do things I would think are so contradictory to my moral scale that I'd have to give up a friendship over.

My friends pretty much know how I feel about most things - and vice versa, so I don't really think we have issues about that. Now, if one of my girlfriends suddenly came to me and said, "I cheated", would I drop her? No...but would I let her know I think it's wrong and she should stop? Damn straight. And if she kept doing it...then yes, quite possibly she'd no longer be a friend of mine. But she'd know that going in...and I suspect she would no longer have the friendship and support of other friends as well. It wouldn't be as dramatic as cutting her off though - probably more like a drifting apart.

I believe that the company we keep does (for better or worse) define us to some degree, and IMO it should elevate us in some way - I like to keep company with those who will make me better (I know that sounds sappy) - whether it's because they have a different perspective that educates me, or we enjoy a smart discussion, or we share common interests like movies or music, etc. I don't tolerate drama queens or emotion-suckers, and the only two I currently deal with (in limited amounts, thank God) are related to me by marriage, not by choice (both my SIL's are manipulators and drama girls).

I guess you've figured out by now that I lean toward your husband's perspective...FWIW

Rica · Kenneth Cole

Haha I've been talking about this, sort of, with my best friend. I think when you choose to be friends with someone, you choose to accept them for who and how they are, good and bad, no matter what. As long as whatever they do doesn't harm you in any way, you have to let people live their lives how they please. That's super important. Yeh, I definitely believe in unconditional love in a friendship. I might get tired of hearing about my best friend's affair with a married man or my other best friend's "goal" of sexing every guy under 30 in our town but I will no doubt be there when (yes, when) both of their worlds come crashing down. There will be no "I told you so" or "how could you be so stupid??" lines, just lots of hugs and ice cream and maybe some beer. That is what friendship is all about.

honey · Gucci

i tend to agree with atlgirl and definitely think your friends reflect on you and can impact your behavior even if you don't realize it. also as much as i would love to say friendship is unconditional, for me it's not. not that i judge my friends, but i just can't sit back and watch someone repeatedly make the same mistake over and over and over again. honestly, it's emotionally draining. i have a friend who has literally had every possible opportunity to "better" herself, but is almost insistent on becoming a stereotype. after a certain point, i was just like i can't really be friendly with you anymore, b/c it's too upsetting. i wish her well, but i just couldn't take it.

Elle · Hermes

I really think that it depends on the friend. I have a friend that I consider part of my 'chosen family'. I love her and she is a wonderful person, but she makes mistakes and bad decisions just like the rest of us. Every time she comes to me, I say pretty much the same thing:

"I love you and I'm here for you. It is not my job to judge you - I'm here to support you in whatever decision you believe is right for you. You are an intelligent person. All I want is for you to be happy. You know I'm always here if you need a place to stay while you get back on your feet."

Short of her doing something inexplicable and/or very illegal, this holds true for this particular friend.

If someone is repeatedly making bad decisions, it can be very wearing - I always start to feel responsible for helping them 'turn it around'. In that case I wouldn't consider it breaking off a friendship with someone you love because their decisions are painful for you to watch as much as letting go of someone you've grown apart from.

blink · Coach

it totally depends on the depth and trust in the friendship. and don't all of us have all different types of friends? There are those you admire, those you pity, those you need, those who need you more. There are those whose faults you talk about with other mutual friends who are concerned, and those who you never talk about because they have got it so together. I think good friendships can be formed with un-likeminded people, but I tend to ask advice of those who are like-minded.

I typically speak my mind with all my friends, including if I think they made a mistake. I hope they do the same for me, like if I were heading down the wrong path, and in the distant past, some friends have given me a piece of their mind. I always say, A TRUE FRIEND STABS IN THE FRONT. But there are also times when it's just not neccessary or helpful to be that honest.

As for a friend who has time and again gone against your own morality, if I have already let it be known how I feel, I do tend to back off too much closeness with such a friend, but I still make it known that I care about them and I am always there to listen if they need me. In other words, I am still there for them to lean on, but I am not so sure I need to lean on them anymore, make sense?

member · Hermes

Rica wrote:

Haha I've been talking about this, sort of, with my best friend. I think when you choose to be friends with someone, you choose to accept them for who and how they are, good and bad, no matter what. As long as whatever they do doesn't harm you in any way, you have to let people live their lives how they please. That's super important. Yeh, I definitely believe in unconditional love in a friendship. I might get tired of hearing about my best friend's affair with a married man or my other best friend's "goal" of sexing every guy under 30 in our town but I will no doubt be there when (yes, when) both of their worlds come crashing down. There will be no "I told you so" or "how could you be so stupid??" lines, just lots of hugs and ice cream and maybe some beer. That is what friendship is all about.

I totally agree with this - when you are friends w/someone - you take them for the good and the bad. You support them even through their mistakes. Now I do agree w/some of the others that if they are doing something I don't like I will be there to listen to them, etc, but I will also be upfront and tell them that I think they are making a poor decision or being stupid. I myself have made some dumb mistakes in my life and my true friends stuck by me and told me that while I was making a mistake - they were there to support me. I love my friends unconditionally. As long as they aren't doing anything that directly affects or hurts me, I'm there for them. Who am I to drop a friend for making a mistake or doing something I don't agree with? God knows I am far from perfect.

poptart · Coach

LMonet wrote:

I really think that it depends on the friend. I have a friend that I consider part of my 'chosen family'. I love her and she is a wonderful person, but she makes mistakes and bad decisions just like the rest of us. Every time she comes to me, I say pretty much the same thing: "I love you and I'm here for you. It is not my job to judge you - I'm here to support you in whatever decision you believe is right for you. You are an intelligent person. All I want is for you to be happy. You know I'm always here if you need a place to stay while you get back on your feet." Short of her doing something inexplicable and/or very illegal, this holds true for this particular friend. If someone is repeatedly making bad decisions, it can be very wearing - I always start to feel responsible for helping them 'turn it around'. In that case I wouldn't consider it breaking off a friendship with someone you love because their decisions are painful for you to watch as much as letting go of someone you've grown apart from.

I couldn't have said it better. I have friends who I am committed too, and I overlook their mistakes. Usually the ones who I think really want to do the right thing. And then I have had friends who seemed to thrive on having drama in their lives and making bad choices and not caring who they hurt, and those people I eventually cut off.

blubirde · Chanel

I couldn't choose which girl's good advice to quote, so I had to choose none but y'all all give such great advice!

I agree with pretty much everyone. I would never judge a friend (well, that's not true, I might think she was doing something wrong and that's kind of judging, isn't it?) for mistakes. I love my friends and I know I do things they would never do and vice versa. My job, as a friend, is to love them and try to understand their point of view. If my friend shoplifted and got caught, I'd think it was wrong and I'd be disappointed in her and I'd tell her I thought it was wrong. But I'd help bail her out of jail (if I had the $$$) and be at her side in court, no question.

I'd never walk away from a friend in need. Never. One of my friends had an affair with a married man. I was shocked. But I did NOT think negatively of her. She was going through hell with the whole thing and the only thing I felt was sorry she had to go through it. I listened to her talk and cry and I tried to offer words of wisdom and comfort. I didn't judge her at all and I didn't think badly of her.

And do I tell a significant other about my friends? It depends on if it involves him or not. Or if I'm having trouble with the issue. But it's kind of like telling bad things about your SO to your girlfriends. Sometimes that's all they remember because you never get around to telling the good stuff. I suppose I'd only tell if I needed to for some reason or another. Otherwise it's between me and the friend.

I think your first ideas are right, laken1, love is unconditional. (That's a very broad statement with many exceptions but I think you get the point.) Don't judge - just accept and be there for your friends. It's the most anyone can ever ask for.

splash · Kenneth Cole

LMonet expressed it beautifully - there are some friends who have become almost more like family than friends - and these I don't judge (or at least, am still there for even if I disagree with their decisions).

It's funny you asked this, because a friend and I have had this debate recently. He's very strict about this - for example, he distanced himself from a girl who was very, VERY intelligent, but drinks a LOT on the weekends. I would probably not befriend an alchoholic without their having other amazing qualities (though if we were friends before the addiction started, I would certainly try to help them through it), but we're in college and her drinking is not a whole lot more than many college students,' who drink a whole lot more than they should.

I guess it seems like your friends are likely enough to have similar values to yours that in general I would think that once you've become friends, occasional deviations from those values are things that you should help friends through. However, getting to know potential close friends I am very picky about who is worth making that commitment to.