STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Christine · Coach

Lazy boyfriend -- please read, I am going CRAZY!

crystal · Kate Spade

wow, that's hard cuz u guys have been together for so long! personally i just wouldn't have enough in common w/ a guy who works retail (not that there's anything wrong w/ retail, i'm talking about when u have an engineering degree & u r working retail) part time. i definitely would tell him to move out until he can afford to contribute to the rent (if that means living w/ parents, friends, so be it). it puts way too much pressure on ur relationship for u to have to support the two of you. have u guys ever talked about marriage? i guess that's the only case in which i would let him stay cuz in a marriage if one person loses their job u don't kick them out... but then again i might reconsider marriage w/ a guy who is this lazy. what happens when u have kids, is he gonna say "i can't change diapers cuz it's my day off"?? maybe i'm a little harsh tho cuz my longest relationship has been 6 months so i don't know what it's like to be w/ someone for 7 years. good luck & vent all u like!!

bex · Chanel

christine- I am SO SORRY you are going through this- your issue with your boyfriend eerily echos my own. BF is a mid-level manager at an engineering firm and is "looking" for a new job too. He has been "actively" looking since January and driving me nuts.

The best ways I "help" him is too search monster.com myself and print out jobs i think he may have the qualifications for, find companies i think he would have an interest in and print them out for him too.

constant nagging gets on his nerves and yours. so try to stay away from it as hard as it is!

best of luck!

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Hey Christine and Bex - I had the exact same situation with my ex. I helped, and helped (I even hired a career counselor - which he skipped to go drinking with his friends) and supported and supported and nagged like crazy! It was awful! He just kept getting worse and worse adn there was nothing I could do. Because, as I finally realized, he's a completely different person and there's nothing I can do to make him do anything. I can just protect my own credit and try not to put myself through situations that make me sick to my stomach.

I totally feel for you two. And I hope you can talk to these guys, and that they will understand how much they are hurting you. In my case, that didn't happen. He kept saying, "I really understand this time. You've really made me see it now..." And then he'd go right back to the way it was before. The relationship did not survive. And somehow, he found a completely fabulous job about four months after we broke up. I think he wanted to "show me" that I was wrong to dump him or something.

So your situation might be different. But it does sound like there are some similarities. Good luck thinking this through - and please talk to them and really listen to what they are saying, and also to what their actions are saying. This is one of the ultimate trust-your-gut situations.

Christine · Coach

omg, bex -- I do the same thing, searching monster.com and the like, and emailing him links to jobs that I think would be a good match! He tells me "those look great, thanks!" and then he pretty much ignores them until finally the links expire b/c the job posting gets too old......

I know that's babying him, but I've tried not babying him too, just completely ignoring him and seeing if he'll do anything on his own, but of course not!

You are right, I need to stop nagging b/c it is driving both of us crazy, I just hate how he does nothing (whether I nag or not....) but it is very hard to sit silent while we struggle to pay the bills.

crystal -- yeah, it's hard to kick someone out when you've been with them for so long. I know that if I was tight on money that he would help me out (as he has before) although if I were jobless, I'd be proactively searching day and night!

dizzy -- thanks for your post. It's so true how the nagging/helping/him doing nothing cycle just really burns a person out. I don't know what your ex had to say when you tried to sit down and talk to him about the situation.

I asked my bf today, "Honestly, how do you feel about the effort you've put into finding a job?"

And he says, (and I am pasting this from an IM we just had!) "ok, not too bad. I know I could have spent more time, but that it wouldn't make an ounce of difference. There are no good jobs and even if I apply, none of them will get back to me. They don't even acknowledge my application at all, not even a generic email saying that they received anything from me...plus, trying to call people never works anyway. No one answers their phone or calls back when I leave a message. It's very frustrating. I shouldn't have to call a million places after applying online."

Dizzy and Bex, I am just wondering if your bf/ex bf has the same attitude?

ShanKel · Kenneth Cole

First let me say that I think you are a great girlfriend for supporting him while he's "looking" for another job.

Was he always lazy? It seems like he has had some drive in the past to get a degree in mechanical engineering(although I know the real world is tougher than college). The reason I say that is because maybe he's going through something right now. Does he seem depressed?

If you believe that he's just plain lazy, maybe he's being lazy because he can. He knows that you will be there to back him up. I bet if he was on his own, struggling to make ends meet he would try harder to put that degree to use.

I really dont have a solution but I would say try and talk to him and see whats going on in his head. Tell him that you can't continue to carry the weight and he is going to have to try a little harder. After that stop worrying yourself carzy. It will all work out.

bex · Chanel

Christine wrote:

"Honestly, how do you feel about the effort you've put into finding a job?" And he says, (and I am pasting this from an IM we just had!) "ok, not too bad. I know I could have spent more time, but that it wouldn't make an ounce of difference. There are no good jobs and even if I apply, none of them will get back to me. They don't even acknowledge my application at all, not even a generic email saying that they received anything from me...plus, trying to call people never works anyway. No one answers their phone or calls back when I leave a message. It's very frustrating. I shouldn't have to call a million places after applying online." Dizzy and Bex, I am just wondering if your bf/ex bf has the same attitude?

just curious- does he shy away from or generally have good personable/social skills? is he a good communicator? it sounds like he is afraid of the rejection process. if he doesn't want to leave messages for people or email them. if he has any sales experience, he has to realize that sometimes the thing separating him and the next guy is his persistence at getting the job. which means voice mails, emails, letters, etc.

for the record, my BF is still holding his job and work 70 hours a week at it. i think a lot of his attitude comes from being burnt out at his job and not willing to look for others when he comes home. i think he just wants to come home and escape the whole "work" thing. and so, because of that, he puts searching for a new job on the backburner too. however, everything we have coming up hinges on "when i get my new job" for him. as in, my engagement ring, his new car, our house, moving into the city, etc. i don't know what his problem is and why he can't move faster, but for now i am just letting him be to see if it makes it better...

unfortunately i don't have a "this will fix it!" trick for you on this. its a matter of getting out of him what is really bugging him... good luck!

bumblebee · Coach

my first thought is: is he depressed? have you talked about it? it seems like the approach you are taking now isn't helping, so maybe there's something else going on. worth checking into. i am sorry this is going on--tough situation.

splash · Kenneth Cole

Ugh, I'm sorry!

There are 3 reasons I can think of that he's doing this: laziness, lost hope/depressed, or shy. If it's laziness, it sounds like you two have grown to be different people and you should find someone who's a better match. If he really feels like it's hopeless, a career counselor might help, or suggest that he try one place at a time. And shyness I'd say the same thing - if you break it up into little tasks, that might make it feel more doable.

jacL · Coach

Ugh, I feel the same way with my BF. He has never been working less than fulltime since he graduated college, but the jobs he has been at are jobs he could do without his degree (although his degree is pretty pointless). He works more than 50 hours a week and has a varying schedule so I understand he is tired after work, but I feel he needs to put more effort into finding a good job that will prove useful to building a career.

Has your BF always beeen this way? If not, he could be depressed about not being able to find a job and not using his degree, which he worked hard for. It sounds like he is depressed about it and doesn't feel that his past searches have done anything so he is giving up. Be supportive and don't nag (it's so hard, especially when they say you're nagging and you're really not!). How does he feel about you helping him in his search? I think that may help him, to know that you are there for him. Try hard not to say anything degrading about any job prospect he may be interested in and be optimistic, for his benefit. You may have to actually do the work for him, and hopefully he won't think it will always be that way.

But he needs to realize that a good job is not going to be handed to him. He needs to step up his search and realize his priorities. I would tell him that working retail is fine as long as he is pulling in his share of the money. It is so unfair that you have to support yourself and him. Get him to at least go full time, even if he has to do two jobs to do it.

I am really sorry about the situation you are in. You have been together seven years and it may sound harsh to say you kicked him to the curb because he wasn't making enough money or being lazy about finding a job, but the reality of it is that in the real world, you need to work for what you want. If he can't understand that, what is your future gong to look like?

-- Edited by jacL at 13:08, 2005-07-09

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

this has to be so incredibly difficult. it's hard because it sounds like your bf has never really had to work at getting a job and so this is all new territory from him. and he does sound depressed but coming to that conclusion doesn't really solve the problem. i think most of your stress comes from the fact that his actions are having a direct impact on you--you have to pay the rent, your future is linked to his, etc. at least that's the way it is for my friend whose situation is eerily similar to yours.

anyway here's what i'd do, and i know it's sooo much easier said than done: i'd explain that he's really stressing me out and the burden of having to support us both is just more than i can bear and that i need a break from living together.

then i'd move out.

gosh, it was scary just to write that and i'm just an outsider in the situation!

if you're in a lease, find out if you can get out of it. chances are, if you explain your situation to your apt. manager, they'll let you out.

this way, you're not kicking him out because you're the one moving out but it makes him have to make a decision.

good luck and if the scenario i described is impossible to carry out, post again and we'll try to come up with a different solution. and christine, please know we're here for you. it'll work out, it's just a hard time right now is all. try not to stress too much, ok?

Vanessa · Kate Spade

Well this sounds very familiar. I dated a guy for six years - brilliant guy mind you, and he lost his job after the whole dot com crash years ago.  I supported us for over a year & had the SAME issues you describe. I was so frustrated! I saw him job-searching, but in my opinion, he wasn't looking hard enough. I would see him do fun things like play video games all day long with my brother and it drove me nuts!   He ended up working a crappy temp job that he hated, developed a bad attitude and drove me to nag him to find something better. It was an ugly vicious cycle.
I know for a fact that he was depressed and this made things even worse. I was very stressed out and resented the fact that he didn't look harder, because if I were in his shoes, I'd do everything I could to get back on my feet. Eventually I realized that was not going to happen, we're very different people and we function so differently.   Reading all these posts makes me believe that even more. In the end I came to accept that he would do things at his own pace and I either had to leave him or accept it, but I really couldn't do much to change it.  Talking worked a little bit, and nagging definitely did not work at all. In the end, it took a huge toll on our relationship and I think had a lot to do with us eventually breaking up.
Sorry I don't have any great words of wisdom, except that I've been there and I know how difficult your situation is. I know that it's not easy to walk away from someone with whom you've shared so much for so long. And I don't regret doing it - it was what I truly wanted.  And that what you have to decide as well. Although admittedly, if you ask me now whether I'd do it again, my most likely answer would be no.

PS - According to my therapist, my guy was going to find a job whenever he was ready. Nothing I could've said or done would've motivated him... it all has to come from him. So simple yet I was so blind to that. He was going to try harder whenever it was absolutely necessary, and that turned out to be so true. He eventually landed a great job again & I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

kenzie · Chanel

Oh wow, that's a tough one. Is he a manager in retail or is he a sales associate b/c there is a huge difference. Many people (myself included) have been displaced from their desired field into retail management jobs from hell, so if this is the case, that's a little better than being a sales associate. From what you're saying, based on the financial issues, he is probably a sales associate (a manager wouldn't have financial issues, I would assume).

But anyway, if he really wants to get a job in his field, he needs to be proactive. This economy doesn't allow for passive job seeking. There is too much competition for too few jobs to simply post your resume on a website and wait. Looking for a job is a full-time job in and of itself. Yes, it sucks to work full-time at a job you hate and still have to come home and send out resumes, but sometimes that's what has to be done! Maybe he could also try looking into an employment agency or a headhunter.

I would definitely have a heart-to-heart with him, maybe sit down with your montly budget and show him how you're coming up short while you support both of you. You could even buy him some job hunting books that he could read and would hopefully motivate him. It sucks b/c it sounds like he's become somewhat complacent with his situation and it's easy for him b/c he has you. That has to be tough. I agree with esquiress in that if worse comes to worse, you need to move out. Sometimes, some people really need a good, swift kick in the a$$ to get them out of a rut. Maybe your bf is one of them.

Good luck!!

member · Hermes

Christine - I can relate. I went through this w/my bf of 3 years a couple years ago. He graduated college w/a BA in Marketing, but he wanted to do PR work for record companies - that is pretty much a dead end where we live. He refused to look for jobs in Marketing and therefore, took a very lazy approach to finding any sort of job. I would search for jobs on the internet, help him w/his resume, email his resume to potential jobs, fax it, etc. I really did a lot for him and it frustrated me to no end that he didn't take any iniative himself. For a while, it really took a toll on us, I got pretty fed up. We actually split up very briefly and in that time, he realized that he needed to turn himself around and get his sh!t together in order to have a life w/me and even for himself. And he did just that - he got a job. And now we have been living together for the past year and he's become a personal trainer. I gave him a little nudge in that direction, by just telling him "hey, you're really good at this type of thing and I think you could do really great at it" I gave him very positive encouragement, but I didn't push - I didn't want to make that mistake again. But he really wanted to get his career going at this point..which helped. I know that during the time a couple years ago when he had no drive to do anything, he was pretty depressed and that definitely had an impact on things. He's really turned himself around now. All I can tell you is don't push him. Help him out if he asks for it, but don't push or nag. He'll just resent you, even if he really shouldn't. Maybe you just need to take a step back, or tell him you don't know if you can have a future if he's not going to be financially stable. Give him positive encouragement, maybe say hey you would be really good at this job, because of these talents you have....7 years is a long time, so I'm not going to tell you to just dump him. Just be there for him, but it may get to a point where you can't do anymore for him, and then you have to ask yourself what you want for a future. HTH - I know how difficult this is.

Christine · Coach

Ladies, thanks for all of your insightful comments and questions and words of support. I am amazed by how many of you have been through a similar situation.

NylaBelle, he's a sales associate at a home furnishings store. As you can imagine, going from an engineer's salary to making $8 an hour can put a lot of stress on anyone's budget.

He just had a conversation with the store manager and requested that he start working full-time hours, and they agreed. So hopefully we can just barely get by until, as Vanessa said, he'll be ready in his own mind to put the effort into this job search. Apparently they really love him at this job and he says he likes it too, but he tells me he knows it's not what he wants to do in life. They also told him that they thought he'd be great management material, which he seems eager to start doing at some point, although I know he's considering it only because he sees it as a band-aid to our financial situation and not because it's what he actually wants to do.

Esquiress - yeah, reading your words "then I'd move out" made me feel sick. I don't know if I am ready for that. I am wondering how much time I should give him before I start seriously considering that.

I am going to take everyone's advice and lay off on bugging him, and try just providing positive reinforcement as some of you suggested. How long to wait patiently......I don't know.

We sat down with our budget yesterday and figured out that by working full-time, he will be able to pay for our utility bills as well as contribute a couple hundred each month towards the rent (our rent's $1475/mo.) At least this should help a little bit, but it of course does not solve the real problem.

He's also considering a contract engineering position that some recruiter contacted him about, but that makes me kind of nervous because his resume is going to start looking like he can't hold a job. He held several internships during college, 4 months each, and then he was at this last place for 6 months.....I am worried he'll get locked into doing temp/contract jobs because potential employers won't see him as "permanent employee material."

Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks again everyone.

Luv2Shop · Kate Spade

I wouldn't worry about the " not looking like permanent employee material" thing. As long as he has some jobs that are in his field, keep the others off. Internships always look good, no matter how short. I know how frustrating looking for jobs can be. It's really not a fun process. If he doesnt' make enought to at least split all bills with you coming into the new year (that gives him about 6 months) then I would get worried. That's when I would consider leaving, as much as it hurts. If you are both out of college, he needs to start acting like an adult and not using you as his sugar mama while you pay most of the bills! If you let him continue to do this, I am afraid it will never change.

The things that would make me say you should consider leaving now are the following:
is he the same way around the house? Does he hate helping out, doing chores, say you are ALWAYS NAGGING when you ask him to do anything? If so, get out, fast.

I was with my college bf for 3 years, 2 of them we lived together. He was 26 and I was 22 so he should have been more mature then me...nope. He was a lazy bum. He did work, but he was in carpet, and they got slow once and a while. When they were slow I had to work triple hard to make bills and when I would come home he would be sitting on his ass playing playstation, the apt. a mess! I would come home and clean and pay bills, and he never would do anything. Anytime I would ask him to do anything he would say I was nagging him. I started getting really depressed and was like "is this what the rest of my life is going to be like?" I finally realized, I don't have to settle for him. I moved out. It was the hardest and best thing I have ever done.

It took a lot of support from my family and time to get over leaving someone I really loved, but when I thought about how miserable my life would be cleaning up after him, I knew I had to get out and that he was never going to change.

I hope that for your own sake if your guy is like this, you can leave. You don't deserve to have someone you have to take care of, it should be the other way around. I found that person 6 months later and now we a married and I never knew life or a relationship could be this amazing.
I hope the same for you with him, or whoever it may be. Just have the courage to make YOU happy. It is the best thing you can do for yourself and your life. BE HAPPY!!!!!

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Everyone gave such great advice, but Luv2Shop, your post gave me chills! Good for you for seeing the problem BEFORE you got married, and for taking care of yourself... Wow. I wish I'd been that smart. And Bex and Christine, good luck with these guys again, I hope this frustrating situation works out well - quickly - for both of you.

Luv2Shop · Kate Spade

Dizzy wrote:

Everyone gave such great advice, but Luv2Shop, your post gave me chills! Good for you for seeing the problem BEFORE you got married, and for taking care of yourself... Wow. I wish I'd been that smart. And Bex and Christine, good luck with these guys again, I hope this frustrating situation works out well - quickly - for both of you.

Thank you!
I just get really sad when I think of how many women DO settle. It's so easy to stay with someone because you are comfortable and don't want to hurt them, that people end up hurting themselves staying with someone they are unhappy with.

Here is my advice to anyone in a relationship having thoughts like this:
Take a day for yourself. Take a long walk and think about what your goals are, if you are happy everyday, do you ever find yourself getting frustrated with things your so is or isn't doing? Is what your life is like right now better or worse compared to what you dreamed it would be like when you were younger. If your thoughts are more negative then positive, make a change. Talk to your so and figure out if you are just settling because you are comfortable or if you want to make things better. Chances are, if you are unhappy with him you aren't acting happy around him so it won't be a total loss for him to get away from his "unhappy, nagging girlfriend". Find someone who has similar lifestyle triats as yours, or at least appreciates the ones you have.

You only live once. Make it the best life it can be and if you have to go back to work finding someone you can be happy with, do it!! Don't settle!!!

Christine · Coach

Luv2Shop - That must have been really hard for you, but I'm glad you were able to see that he wasn't going to change and that you'd be doing all the work for the rest of your life if you stayed with this guy. Fortunately, to respond to your question, my BF is not the same. He cleans up around the house, does dishes, has dinner waiting for me when I get home, etc. These are just some of the little things he does to show me he cares. He's really very helpful and not lazy when it comes to household stuff. It's just this job search that he's being lazy with (which unfortunately impacts us so much, obviously....) But I'd rather he work really hard at finding a job, instead, and leave the housework to me!

-- Edited by Christine at 14:28, 2005-07-11

bex · Chanel

Dizzy wrote:

Everyone gave such great advice, but Luv2Shop, your post gave me chills! Good for you for seeing the problem BEFORE you got married, and for taking care of yourself... Wow. I wish I'd been that smart. And Bex and Christine, good luck with these guys again, I hope this frustrating situation works out well - quickly - for both of you.

awww. thanks christine for thinking of me. i really hope your situation turns around. and i can definitely understand your frustrations with him coming from an engineer's salary to $8 an hour! i dont think they realize how much they contribute to the expenses!

my BF told me this morning he is emailing his resume to my best friend's father to look over and for him to give advice. and one of his friends told me today that he emailed a position to him as well.