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Post Info TOPIC: vent! (this is a really long one...)


Marc Jacobs

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vent! (this is a really long one...)
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I wish I had one friend, just one, who didn't come from a wealthy family. I just came from brunch with seven girlfriends and I feel like my head is going to explode. During the course of this brunch, conversation topics included: 1) how friend A's mother doesn't know how to use a vacuum cleaner while their cleaning lady is on vacation; 2) how friend Y's mother has been going through menopause and went bonkers shopping the last time she and her dad were in Florence and came back with a suitcase bursting with goodies from missoni and ferragamo ("oh yeah," chimed in friend L, "you always have to bring an extra suitcase to bring home all your loot!"), 3) the expensive electronics habit of friend Y's father; 4) friend L's upcoming wedding (ceremony at church on Park Ave and reception at the Waldorf Astoria), and 5) the distress of friend L and friend J about their respective wedding registries because although they both want to keep things simple, their mothers/aunts keep pushing them to register for sterling flatware services and fancy china even though they will eventually just inherit said mothers' own heirloom sterling and china.


Ullllhhhh. Now, my issue is not that my friends are snobs, because they aren't (well, with one exception but she was actually not getting on my nerves with that stuff today, for once), but just that, well, as I said, sometimes hanging out with them makes me feel like my head is going to explode! I have been dealing with this for nine years... I went to an elite private college on a big fat financial aid package, but although I know there must have been other people in my boat, I somehow managed not to actually meet any of them. I was the only one in our group of friends who was on financial aid, the only one with a work-study job that I desperately needed cause that was my only source of spending money, and the only one who couldn't even contemplate a summer internship because I'd have no way to pay for living expenses. I used to have a pretty big chip on my shoulder about it, even though at the same time I fully realized what a skewed perspective of the world it was, that _I_, with all basic needs met plus a little spending money plus this incredible education, felt POOR. I deal with it much better now, although I still have moments of whiny "why ME?" They usually come when I am stuck at the office with a big school project looming and I am resenting needing to support myself financially with an unfulfilling and irrelevant job while I am in school, while my friends who are in school, whose parents are supporting them, can devote themselves completely to schoolwork without spending 20 hours a week doing something irrelevant.


But most of the time I am proud of myself for the discipline and self-reliance I have had to learn, and besides, I make enough money now to be able to buy a few nice clothes and travel, so I don't feel as much like the poor relation as I used to. I don't resent my friends for what they have but I feel so excluded from conversations sometimes. And it's not like I can even say anything to them about it--they aren't snobby or elitist, it's just that their frame of reference is so different from mine that the things they mention in casual conversation make my head spin. Friend K, on real estate: "so my dad just bought the house [his FIFTH] in Palm Springs! Oh well, I guess it's better to buy real-estate during his midlife crisis than cars..." Versus me, on real estate: "my aunt and uncle are trying to decide where to move because after he retires they won't be able to afford even their current shitty, ugly house in a low-rent DC suburb." Friend Jen, on budgets: "I really had to think twice about taking the job because I have a mortgage I have to pay" when the mortgage she speaks of is on a $1 million+ Soho duplex that her dad bought for her so it is mathematically impossible that she is paying more than a small percentage of said mortgage at any given time unless she is making several hundred thousand dollars (which she is not). Versus me, idly wondering whether I will own a place by the time I am 40 and coming up pretty doubtful.


!!!!!! Sometimes it's just a little too much to take and I wish I knew someone else who was in the po' boat with me. Because just as I can't relate to them when they discuss certain aspects of their lives, they cannot relate to me when I discuss things that reveal my own lack of money--when I talk about not being able to pursue certain career paths because they don't provide a living wage, or about having to work three days a week while in a really demanding full time degree program, or about being worried about my father because he is four years away from retiring and doesn't have enough money saved even to meet basic necessities let alone live in comfort, they just don't get it--they are very sympathetic but it doesn't resonate with them on any level of understanding. It would just be so comforting to know someone who would be like, "yeah, boy, been there!" or "Oh I know, me too" or "well when I was dealing with that it really helped to" or whatever.


Sorry that was so long. I do feel better for having vented, though. And I'm hoping there are some STers who are familiar with this scenario--or at least with not having much money, if not with being surrounded by wealthy people--so I know there is someone who gets it!



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Chanel

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I'm not entirely in your boat, but I'm in the same port at least .  I'm still in high school so my parents still support me, but I go to a fairly wealthy prep school with a bunch of lazy rich kids.  A lot of my friends are handed things on a regular basis, whereas I try to spend my own money on things I need instead of spending my parents' money.  My friend M has an older sister who is a freshman in college and in a casual conversation she mentioned that her mom went up to her sister's college to do her laundry.  Apparently she does this on a regular basis and it is no big deal.  M doesn't know how to do laundry to save her soul.  I have been doing mine since I was 12.  I babysit frequently so I can have money to go out and buy myself dinner, movie tickets, etc.  I'd say that 50-60% of my clothing was purchased with my money.  Anyways, I know in college and for the better 10-15 years afterwards, I'll be struggling, but I think it will be okay.  To make a long story short: Sure, they have everything they want at the snap of their fingers, but everything YOU have, YOU have worked for.  You are completely self sufficient and THAT is something to be proud of.

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Coach

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quote:

Originally posted by: theotherjess

"To make a long story short: Sure, they have everything they want at the snap of their fingers, but everything YOU have, YOU have worked for.  You are completely self sufficient and THAT is something to be proud of."

She's right.  Hard as it may be, remind yourself that you have gotten what you have worked for yourself. 


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Chanel

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The vast majority of the world is not wealthy.  Is there any way you can go out and meet new people?  I'm not saying ditch your old friends, but maybe go out with people at work or join a club or something?  I feel like I'm going to be pretty financially independent/well off, but I know I'm going to work for it.  My parents haven't bought me a piece of clothing since I was 12- that's when I started working.  I'm 21 now.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  I don't WANT to spend my money on maids and rich people things.  It's just not how I'm used to spending my money.  I feel lucky because my friends are all pretty normal money-wise.  Some have to work harder than others, but we're all basically middle class, and when I *sort of* have those "rich people" conversations you speak of (usually talking about stocks with my dad), I can't help rolling my eyes at what I say sometimes.  I just feel silly talking about money and real estate and maids and stocks- it's so..ugh.  But sometimes you do have to talk about that stuff.  You say your friends aren't snobby so there's nothing you can do to change the situation except expand and meet new people as well.

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Chanel

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i think the schools you go to skew your view of the world.  i went to a private all girls h.s. then to a prestigious college that cost a lot of money (the nursing school had a lot of money to give, almost all nurses got scholarships).  you could basically judge my school by the parking lots!!!  anyways, i feel like the girls who are comfortable with themselves and rich, don't show it.  my roommate in college's dad was a head honcho at the board of trade in chicago....you couldn't tell at all that she came from a ton of money.  then i had the roommate who was insecure, always shopping after baby-sitting, etc...  it made me feel sad for her.  i think deep down, if you're comfortable with yourself, even if you have money, you won't flaunt.  it makes me feel sad for those girls.  cuz i know my friends who had convos. like that and they were compensating for something else.  (i still loved them though!!)


just remember to be proud of who you are and where you came from and everything that you worked for.  you will learn happiness from what's really important....not from how many gucci bags you have. 



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Coach

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Enjoy it.  I did the same thing, I went to an elite private school on my Grandfather's money (he was medical director at a big hospital in town).  Nobody cared that my parents didn't have money, it wasn't an issue.  Eventually I grew apart from those friends because I got a working class boyfriend in HS, but I wish I hadn't, because in my adult experience, I have found that it's actually the people of the have-nots culture who are even more competitive, insecure and material than what I thought the wealthy were.  There are certainly plenty of these types in every financial level, but I found that the wealthier class was more interested in philantrophy, arts, global culture and education than the middle class.  I am totally middle class financially, but I will always have my upbringing and my experience with peers and their parents in my youth, which I consider to be upper class.

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Gucci

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quote:

Originally posted by: lorelei

"in my adult experience, I have found that it's actually the people of the have-nots culture who are even more competitive, insecure and material than what I thought the wealthy were.  There are certainly plenty of these types in every financial level, but I found that the wealthier class was more interested in philantrophy, arts, global culture and education than the middle class.  I am totally middle class financially, but I will always have my upbringing and my experience with peers and their parents in my youth, which I consider to be upper class."


This is true of me too.  I felt so out of place in high school because i wasn't as rich as other people were and didn't live that lifestyle. But what I found out later was that it was the people with "new money" who were worse than the people with "old" money.  The old  money people were the ones that were friendly and nice and didn't flaunt their richness.  The new money people were the ones buying their kids the expensive cars- in some cases the drive to school car and the weekend car- and living in the really expensive new neighborhoods because they didn't have this money when they were young and they want to show it off.


Its a sucky feeling to have and go through.  Its not fun to have to work and worry about how you are going to pay for stuff when your friends have parents who are paying for them.  I am worried about that this summer.  I don't have a job as of right now for the summer and my real job is starting in mid-August and all my mom is willing to offer me is $100 a month to cover gas.  So now I have to worry about trying to find a temp job to help pay for summer expenses and moving to another city while my friends are taking trips all over the country and living it up.  It also sucks that my brother isn't working and my parents have in the past month and a half bought him an ipod mini for his b-day (I got a $40 jacket from AE) and a $100 bowling ball for his hobby while I had to pay for sorority and stuff.  It just sucks and I know how you are feeling.



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Chanel

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Hey sephorablue, I'm poor, too!! Yay! We can be poor together. I wouldn't be able to stand a conversation like the one you were describing. Not because it's about money topics but because it's so insubstantial. I mean really. My mom's shopping spree? Give me a break. If anyone ever hears me discussing the contents of my mother's purchases, you know I've become the most boring person alive who has no life to speak of.


I know what you mean though. I went to law school and most everyone there was privileged in some way. And I applied for nonprofit legal jobs over the summers and they told me I needed to have spent my college summers interning or volunteering to be able to get those jobs. (Excuse me! I had to take classes and work my ass off during college so I could pay my RENT and graduate in 3 years because my parents couldn't afford a 4th year of school. Summer internships were not an option for me.) So it sucks, but that's the way it is. There's nothing to do now about it except figure out how to deal and find some other ways around it.


One time in law school I told someone my dad worked for the railroad (like doing the manual labor type stuff) and the guy was like, oh, my uncle works for Union Pacific, too. I was intrigued. Then the guy told me his uncle was VP of this or that department and I knew we had a disconnect. I used to hang around the construction areas at college (don't laugh!) so I could hear the people talk and work. It made me feel more connected to the world I'd come from.


So don't fret. There are others out there in your situation. I'm happy for everything I have and I wouldn't change my experiences for anything in the world. I'm certain the things I have wouldn't mean as much to me if they hadn't been so hard to come by.


And definitely get some new friends. Doesn't matter if they're rich or not - just get some with something interesting to say.



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Kate Spade

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hey SB & blubirde... my name is crystal and i'm poor!  not just me, my family too.  in fact, i'm pretty sure my dad will never be able to retire, despite the fact that he is considered "unemployable" due to his disabilities, he cannot get any support from anywhere else so he works at home depot.  my mom will likely never retire either considering she just started saving about a year ago (and she's 50 now).  also, i just realized this weekend that i make almost $10,000 more a year than her.  my only hope for them is to get a really good job (i make ok money now, but i still have my own debt to worry about) & help them out.  but i totally know how u feel, i've always managed to have friends & boyfriends who are well off.  their convos don't usually bother me too much, but i definitely would feel weird talking about my "poor" problems w/ them.  i don't think people who aren't poor realize just how bad it is... i mean just this past week my dad slept in his car because he lost the house he was renting & couldn't rent another place in time (he lives too far from me to stay w/ me & his bros & sis aren't very supportive).  SB, if u ever wanna talk more, believe me, we are in the same boat sitting right next to eachother, so PM me any time!

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Marc Jacobs

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the funny thing is, I have met SO MANY new people in the last year, under various circumstances, that you'd think they'd be more of a mix... but they're not! at least not the ones i've gotten to be good friends with. if it were just my college friends it wouldn't be so surprising. you know what though--i bet it's a new york thing. cost of living here is so insanely high that it's really hard to get a footing unless you either grew up around here so you can live at home for the first couple years, or your parents are subsidizing you. it is funny though; I thought I had finally discovered a compatriot when I got back in touch with my ex from high school about a year ago, and actually for the most part he is (he lives far away though, so it's not too much help most of the time), but then at one point he was panicking about having to take out a $20,000 loan to pay for his one-year grad degree in Ireland and I was like, "$20,000? That's kiddie loan debt! Entry-level!" Turns out his poor, self-sacrificing parents sold their comfy, normal house in our town and moved into a cramped, depressing little box 30 miles farther away from his dad's workplace so that he could go to a private college without having to take out loans.


Anyway Crystal, I have an idea how you feel. Fortunately my dad has never had to sleep in his car cause he was able to move in with his sister for a while after we lost our house (I was in college). But he jokes about moving into a "Kaczynski Shack" (you know, the unibomber) after he quits working cause he won't be able to afford anything else and the worst part is, I tell him that of course he'll come live with me, but he is too bloody stubborn to be willing to let me help him. He says he doesn't want to be beholden to anybody else after climbing out of the hole he was in a few years ago. I will just have to convince him to put aside his pride for my sake, if not his own.


Oh and Blubirde, in defense of my friend, the shopping story was more of a funny anecdotal story about her parents' dynamics--the second half of the story was her dad's reaction to the mom's crazed shopping, and she gave a hilarious impression of a nervous man, eyes bugging, edging back in his chair to escape a perceived threat. Most of them would never consciously flaunt their wealth--in nearly all cases actually, I would say their parents are far more ostentatious than they themselves are (hence why the references to their parents are the most telling). And for the one friend, S, who is really status-conscious, everybody else is turned off by that aspect of her personality. These are not wildly overindulged spoiled brats I am talking about. It's more just that the standard of living they grew up with, that they take for granted as normal, is very different from mine. Hence the dichotomy between Y's mom going nuts at Missoni vs. my aunt getting a little spend-happy at Pier One.



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