STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Mandy · Kate Spade

am i crazy??

blubirde · Chanel

Woah. Honestly I don't know what to tell you. It's one thing to give advice on these things to women dating silly men or encouraging one of us to take positive steps forward, but it's quite another to advise on divorce. I think only you can answer that. Or perhaps some form of couple's counseling? I'm not sure, sweetie. One thing struck me, though, about your post. You said:

quote:
"some serious talk about my unhappiness and what he can do but here i am ... still unhappy."

What about what you can do? I'm not married and I never have been, so I can't pretend to know what it's like or how it should go. But it seems to me that I have some responsibility in my own happiness and I shouldn't rely on others to create it for me. Are you maybe unhappy and it has nothing to do with your relationship? Do you think there are things you could do to make you happy and then the relationship would look better to you? (I'm not advocating staying in a bad marriage - it's just a thought.)

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you are the better for it!

ejc423 · Coach

quote:
Originally posted by: blubirde
Are you maybe unhappy and it has nothing to do with your relationship? Do you think there are things you could do to make you happy and then the relationship would look better to you?

I thought the same thing. Mandy, I really encourage you to see some kind of counselor before you make any decisions. Maybe you need to see someone alone first who can help you figure out if the relationship really is the source of the problem and then go from there. I know we will all be thinking about you and we are here to support you. (((((hugs)))))

KE · Kenneth Cole

gosh-I hate to give this advice-but i would suggest divorce. I was married for 10 years to my first husband and I knew right away it was a mistake, but didn't believe in divorce. It was hell the first year and I was just so unhappy after that. We were so uncompatible. Unfortunately, we had a daughter, so even though we are divorced, I still have to put up with his sh*t. I have been remarried for 5 years now and I am married to the most wonderful man who I adore and it is like what Karina and the others said. My husband is my best friend and my rock. So get out before you have kids, because from my experience, it won't get any better.

blink · Coach

Keep trying to talk to him and don't let anyone make you think you are crazy for needing this communication. It's worth it! Also, don't give up on someone just because he has trouble communicating. Is he kind to you, does he love you? You haven't been married very long and you are only 25 so no matter how long you have been together, this is a young relationship! People can change, they just have to want to. Give him more of a chance to come around.

The hardest thing for me about marriage is accepting things for what they are and staying loyal to my promise to love. I wish sometimes it weren't so hard, but it just is and I can handle it.

By the way, my husband and I fight a lot and we always get to the bottom of it and always end it in peace. We are certainly not model married people, but we love each other.

I don't know about the first year being the hardest, but I believe Wall Street Journal had an article a couple years ago that said that statistically FOUR is the new seven year itch.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

i'm so sorry you're hurting. i honestly have no idea what you should do, mostly because don't know what you're going through, as i've never been there myself. a few q's--you said you'd been together "on and off" for 8 years, what were the off parts? why and for how long were you off? also, whose idea was it to get married? are most of your peers also married? are most people where you live married by your age? do you feel like you were pressured into it? sorry for the twenty questions, you don't have to answer them if you don't want to!

oh and i echo blubirde's 'responsibility for your own happiness' point.

Mandy · Kate Spade

quote:
Originally posted by: esquiress
"i'm so sorry you're hurting. i honestly have no idea what you should do, mostly because don't know what you're going through, as i've never been there myself. a few q's--you said you'd been together "on and off" for 8 years, what were the off parts? why and for how long were you off? also, whose idea was it to get married? are most of your peers also married? are most people where you live married by your age? do you feel like you were pressured into it? sorry for the twenty questions, you don't have to answer them if you don't want to! oh and i echo blubirde's 'responsibility for your own happiness' point."

thanks for all the advice everyone. i realize that this is a very serious topic and that only i know what i really want. a lot a people have address the happiness thing... i am happy. i am just unhappy with my relationship with him. i have great friends, close family, a job i enjoy so i feel im doing what i can for my own happiness but my marriage is a big part of my life (obviously) and being unhappy in that aspect seems to cloud other things.

esquiress, you had a few questions...

we were on and off because i was in college and he was in the military across the country, sometimes we both got overwhelmed with the distance and needed a break. the longest was a year. i broke up with him that time because of similar issues that we have now. it seemed like he had changed so we got back together and got engaged somewhat shortly after. (of course looking back i see this is a problem) most of our friends are not married. i think it was due in part to pressure from my parents. my mom kept telling me it was a waste to be in this long distance relationship and not have plans to get married. we started dating in high school and lived near one another for the first part of the relationship but in the years leading up to getting married we were across the country from one another.

gosh, in just typing this i see so many red flags.

KE, im glad to know that im not alone in this. i definitely don't want kids anytime soon and definitely not now because our relationship is on the rocks.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I can definitely relate. And I can definitely see a split betwen advice from people who have been married and people who haven't. Before I was married, I sort of assumed I had control - that I would just never allow a divorce because I don't believe in it. That I would just stick it out no matter what. And that we would have good and bad times and that would be normal. Um, I'm not going to go into the details, because he's not a terrible person, but you DO NOT have that much control in a marriage. If one person isn't holding up his end (and it really sounds like yours isn't) then how many times can you take a variation of "We don't have problems, the only problem is you complaining about problems..." and otherwise completely discounting your feelings. One person cannot make a marriage.

The take-responsibilty-for-your-own-happiness is true, of course, but for crying out loud the people who say this have NEVER had to deal with the intense lonliness that results from being discounted and unsupported by the person who is supposed to love you more than anything. There is only so much ONE person can do to keep a relationship going. If two people aren't working at it, then eventually there will not be a relationship no matter how much you want to make it work or what you do. And sure, everyone fights, but it doesn't sound like your problems are fighting - besides, fighting is communication, so it's actually a good thing. I strongly suspect that there is some pressure being put on you to NOT make choices that would make you happy, but instead to keep the life he wants going, like you're an actor reading a script. But I could be wrong.

Will he go to counseling? If not, thats not a good sign. I'm not saying give up. But if you're not happy, and his response is to make that somehow your fault, that's not good. And it's not your fault. It sounds like you keep trying to talk to him, and what, he just keeps trying to make you feel guilty for not being happy. Guilting you into accepting a hollow relationship is NOT exactly the kind of family values most people want.

Anyway, you're not crazy, but being hurt for too long can certainly make you feel like you are. And divorce is hard - the worst thing I've ever gone through - so I only recommend it as a last resort. But it sounds like this relationship needs some help fast.

KE · Kenneth Cole

quote:
Originally posted by: Dizzy
"Anyway, you're not crazy, but being hurt for too long can certainly make you feel like you are. And divorce is hard - the worst thing I've ever gone through - so I only recommend it as a last resort. But it sounds like this relationship needs some help fast. "

Amen Dizzy-Even though I did go through a divorce, I also would not *recommend* it except as a last resort. It is truly like cutting off a limb. Dizzy, do you have kids? I know that having kids makes a divorce something you have to live with every day for the rest of your life, which is why I recommended getting out before you have any.

But I also know how you feel Mandy, like you are going crazy. I felt the same way, because my husband denied we had problems, and that the problem was my dissatisfaction. And now that I am happily married, I can see the contrast so clearly. And I am not saying I am in a fairy tale marriage now, because no marriage is that way. But it is like night and day to my previous one. I guess that's why I am scared for you to stay in the one you are in.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

god i keep pondering this issue and editing my post...mandy i am so so so sorry, i know i keep saying that but i truly truly am. dizzy's right in that there seems to be a divide between the posts of been marrieds and never-been marrieds...ugh this is just so hard. i so apologize for the responsible for your happiness reference, i guess i just meant that i'd be wary of relying on someone else to make you happy, i didn't mean you should have full control over a marriage, after all how could you?

thanks so much for responding to my q's, it does sound like you two may have reacted to external factors before being truly ready but i just realized that i didn't ask the most important questions before...do you love him? does he love you? do you want to make it work? does he? good luck mandy, i can only imagine what you're going through, thanks so much for sharing and please know we are here for you. ((((((((hugs)))))))

-- Edited by esquiress at 15:32, 2005-04-29

-- Edited by esquiress at 15:40, 2005-04-29

blubirde · Chanel

quote:
Originally posted by: esquiress
"god i keep pondering this issue and editing my post...mandy i am so so so sorry, i know i keep saying that but i truly truly am. dizzy's right in that there seems to be a divide between the posts of been marrieds and never-been marrieds...ugh this is just so hard. i so apologize for the responsible for your happiness reference, i guess i just meant that i'd be wary of relying on someone else to make you happy, i didn't mean you should have full control over a marriage, after all how could you? thanks so much for responding to my q's, it does sound like you two may have reacted to external factors before being truly ready but i just realized that i didn't ask the most important questions before...do you love him? does he love you? do you want to make it work? does he? good luck mandy, i can only imagine what you're going through, thanks so much for sharing and please know we are here for you. ((((((((hugs)))))))-- Edited by esquiress at 15:32, 2005-04-29 -- Edited by esquiress at 15:40, 2005-04-29"

Being a non-married myself (and seeing the difference in the posts) I second almost everything esquiress said. My answer to your post is very obviously from the point of view of a single person. I hope that doesn't offend?

I can completely relate to being in a situation where you second guess yourself all the time and your SO makes it seem like all the problems are just YOUR problem. It can really do a number on your emotional stability. I think it's great you aren't taking it lying down.

All of that said, and again, I'm not advocating one direction over another, you are still very young and you have a lot of life ahead of you. There's no sense in living one more day of it unhappily.

I hope things start to look up for you, Mandy, I really do.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

it looks like a few days have passed on this thread, but i was really struck by your predicament, mandy, and wanted to write. i hope what i say helps you if only a little bit. :)

everyone seems to be raising a lot of really good points for you to think about, so i am sure there is already a lot going on in your brain right now. as someone who hasn't been married (but wants to be someday), i don't really know what it is like to have that committment to another person and how it must feel to contemplate ending a marriage. from what i've read, i wonder if over the 8 years with your husband (5 as boyfriend, 3 as husband) you have just grown too strongly in different directions. you must have started going out when you were around 17, right? i am 28, and feel so different from the person i was when i was 17, or even 20. there's nothing wrong with changing, but at this stage in our lives we change so much. the person who was right for you when you were 17 may not be right for you at 25.

also, since you have been with him for so long, maybe you haven't been on your own for long enough time to imagine life without him. that could be part of the problem. do you think it is?

going to counseling sounds like a really great idea for helping you get to the bottom of this. from what you said, your husband hasn't been that receptive to trying to sort through and fix what's wrong, and also like you were pressured into getting married. it would be so hard to do this without support -- i hope you have some good friends around you who can be there. what do your friends think of this? a good test may be to ask them if you seem happy. it's true that friends don't always love each other's choice of significant other, but your friends can tell if you're happy or not. that might be a helpful barometer for you.

please let us know how you're doing, mandy!

lynnie · Chanel

It sounds to me that you want more from life than he wants. You have a great career, great friends, and you want someone that is more like a partner in crime. You want someone to experience life with. You don't sound like you want to settle for this mundane life that he wants. No relationship's perfect but maybe he's just not the right kind of person for this. My mom and dad have had similar problems (they're still married) but my mom always is upset because my dad just comes home from work and watches tv. Everyday. She wants something that feels more...alive. I would think carefully if maybe you would be happier by yourself or with someone else.

splash · Kenneth Cole

My mom always says (lol...) that you have to build your own life before you can really find a partner. As other people have said, it sounds like you didn't get a chance to do that. Basically, it doesn't sound like you're happy, and like you've done what you can (aside from counseling, which sounds like a good idea) to change that without divorce. So I think that (if what's been said on the forum is accurate) you need to at least spend a chunk of time away from him. It'll be scary, of course, but I think you need to know whether that's better. People have said, would you be happier with someone else? I think at this point you need to focus on whether you'd be happier on your own. My impression is that you would be.

Good luck!

Karina · Chanel

Mandy, I can totally relate.... FH and I are also in our mid 20s and we have been together since teenage. Our quality of life, conversations, ways of doing things have totally changed over the years, but thank goodness we were able to "grow older" together. If you and DH are having compatibility issues right now, my suggestion, as the other girls have mentioned is counseling. I don't want to suggest divorce for you because this sounds like something that can be resolved with work. You took a vow when you married your husband, and him for you, and both of you need to struggle and work for this marriage.

He doesn't think anything is wrong because maybe he really THINKS there isn't anything wrong, and you want to give up and get divorced because you don't want to work at this relationship. Nothing comes easy in life, ESPECIALLY marriage. It's even harder when you have children, sweetie! If you love your husband and he loves you, you CAN persevere and get through this.

XOXOXOXOX

Karina

Mandy · Kate Spade

thanks everyone for your kind words and advice. many of you have said things that really hit home and put into words what im feeling.

heres the update... we are going to separate for a while. im moving out into an apartment to have some time on my own to try to reflect on whats important to me. right now it just doesn't look like it is going to work but im trying to stay open at this point. lynnie was right in that he seems to be more ok with the mundane than i am and i don't know that anything can really change that. thats who we are. obviously, thats not the only issue but it is a big one for me.

again, thanks for the love and support. i'll keep you posted.

blubirde · Chanel

Wow. That's a big step, huh? I hope everything turns out the way you need it to. You definitely deserve to be happy!

(((hugs)))

Please post when you're feeling off - the women on this forum are excellent at giving good advice and making one feel better.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Oh honey! Good luck! And please post and let us know how you're doing...