STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Elle · Hermes

Who is planning on watching the debate(s)?

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

I think I need to knock myself out with a lot of alcohol first...but yes, I plan on trying to stomach watching the VP debate.

Domino13 · Nine West

You remind me of a cartoon I saw one time. It had a guy reading a report and the caption said "90% of those polled said that if the election were held today, they would have visited a liquor store yesterday."

I'll be watching the debates.

Suasoria · Chanel

Would I miss it? No. Have I already poured an adult beverage? Yes.

Who's got the best drinking game?? I'm thinking we'll take a drink whenever Palin says something coherent, or Biden gives an answer sans gaffe, but I don't want to be sober all night.

Kelly · Hermes

How about you take a swig every time Palin mentions the maritime border or her view of Russia? You don't have to work in the morning, right?

NCshopper · Hermes

Oh, I'm in. I might be playing this: http://www.palinbingo.com/

pollyjean23 · Marc Jacobs

What a great debate! Lively, yet respectable.

blink · Coach

oh man, all the "heck" and "doggone it" language. Is this endearing to people?

I thought she sounded good...on the surface, she was well rehearsed and obviously had easy questions anyway. I was distracted by my son half the time. But I don't know what she was really saying and numerous times I was thinking that she dodged the questions and wasn't called on it!

I thought my man Biden did well, but he gave her too much grace.

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

Overall I thought Biden did better, but I was actually really happy with her answer about education. I was happy that she admitted that No Child Left Behind simply does not work and needs to be changed.

Oh and blink, I do not like all of the folksy cutesiness that she portrays. I want someone in the White House that seems more like a stellar businesswoman, not a stellar homemaker.

Elle · Hermes

We decided to drink everytime we heard nuc-ya-ler or 'maverick' ...

It was an interesting debate. I think Biden came off as informed but not snooty - heck, I'd vote for him as president! Palin was charming but her answers sounded more like previously memorized, approved 'bits', and were rarely about her own opinions or ideas about things. Word on the street is the debate didn't swing anything wildly - anyone who was undecided and/or leaning is probably still doing so.

Farrah - I couldn't agree more about wanting a professional woman in the white house instead of susy homemaker. An interesting study was recently done to try to figure out why some people are against educated 'elite' in government, and found that while smart people are usually smart enough to know that there's alot they don't know, those who are not very bright tend to overestimate their own competence and abilities, and think a person just like them could run the country just fine. Brought to you by the elitist psychologists at Cornell!

Kincali · Dooney & Bourke

Farrah wrote:

Overall I thought Biden did better, but I was actually really happy with her answer about education. I was happy that she admitted that No Child Left Behind simply does not work and needs to be changed.

Oh and blink, I do not like all of the folksy cutesiness that she portrays. I want someone in the White House that seems more like a stellar businesswoman, not a stellar homemaker.

I agree with everything you said Farrah. While I had leaned towards McCain I'm just really not happy with his VP choice. While I understand it from a campaign perspective, I don't like to think he settled, since he has earned my respect for doing the opposite.

I don't think she is stupid, I just think she isn't completely informed on the issues. Is this something she could fix? Yes. Do we have time to wait on her to read the Cliffs Notes? I don't know.

I'm going to have to look up old video footage of her and see if she used all that "folksy" language before. It just seems so forced. But my sister loves her. So I guess it comes down to your own personality and what you perceive as smart, strong, and engaging. I'm not one to be impressed by the ability to court the crowd, so she and Obama have not really affected me. Damn, am I saying I would want a McCain/Biden ticket?;)

-- Edited by fairlight at 11:27, 2008-10-03

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

fairlight wrote:

Damn, am I saying I would want a McCain/Biden ticket?;)

-- Edited by fairlight at 11:27, 2008-10-03

Ha! It's funny you should say that because my BF is a republican (only in the fiscal and 2nd ammendment sense however) really ended up liking Biden after watching the debate. He was like, "I would totally vote for that guy. Do you think we could get them to swap VP nominees?" Ha!

That being said, the more I learn about Biden the sadder I am that he didn't get a better shot during the Democratic primaries. I find myself liking him and what he stands for more than I do Obama, and I have been a long time Obama supporter (as I am from Chicago).

Kelly · Hermes

Elle wrote:
Farrah - I couldn't agree more about wanting a professional woman in the white house instead of susy homemaker. An interesting study was recently done to try to figure out why some people are against educated 'elite' in government, and found that while smart people are usually smart enough to know that there's alot they don't know, those who are not very bright tend to overestimate their own competence and abilities, and think a person just like them could run the country just fine. Brought to you by the elitist psychologists at Cornell!

This killed me during the last election, and thankfully until Palin's recent position it hasn't been an issue for long. But I had three roommates at the time, and they all had their friends over all the time, and pretty much everyone was for Bush. While I'm not personally a fan of him, there were things about his positions that I could appreciate, so if I had to make a case for him, I could have done it. BUT whenever a bunch of people got together at my house and the discussion turned toward the election, everyone would go on to say how much they liked Bush. What absolutely killed me was that no one ever said any kind of good, educated comment based on his positions or opinions or history. It was always "Kerry wears a suit and tie, but Bush doesn't wear one and he wears a plaid shirt and jeans while campaigning. He's just a regular guy and he doesn't think he's better or smarter than us."

WHAT?! I should hope that whoever becomes president is smarter and better than me. It really turned me off that Bush pushed his "regular guy" persona. I dont' want a regular guy in the white house. I want a specatcular guy.

kmd · Kate Spade

I have never seen someone avoid answering questions as well as Palin. I thought it was embarrassing. And her cutesy attitude trying to appeal to "joe 6-pack" Americans is really insulting. And, if I hear "heck" or "maverick" one more time, I think I'll go insane.
I thought Biden was very strong and direct. I appreciated that. He's a good man.

kmd · Kate Spade

ttara123 wrote:
WHAT?! I should hope that whoever becomes president is smarter and better than me. It really turned me off that Bush pushed his "regular guy" persona. I dont' want a regular guy in the white house. I want a specatcular guy.

Exactly!

pinkkitty · BCBG

Elle wrote:
An interesting study was recently done to try to figure out why some people are against educated 'elite' in government, and found that while smart people are usually smart enough to know that there's alot they don't know, those who are not very bright tend to overestimate their own competence and abilities, and think a person just like them could run the country just fine. Brought to you by the elitist psychologists at Cornell!

That's very interesting. It really infuriates me when dumbasses call intelligent people "elitist." Smart makes you an elitist? What is so elitist about Obama? He grew up middle class, his mom was single. And Biden? His dad was working class! So you're elitist if you've worked your ass off and made amazing strides to success? Um, last I heard that was called "the American dream." Is it "elitist" for a black man to come as far as Obama has in America without wealthy parents or family members with connections? And who wouldn't want somebody smart - smarter than themselves - to run the country? According to that study, I guess a dumbass.

oh man, all the "heck" and "doggone it" language. Is this endearing to people?

I thought my man Biden did well, but he gave her too much grace.

And Blink, I TOTALLY agree with what you said above. It completely baffles me that people find that charming. Quite frankly, Palin's voice to me, accent & all, are like fingernails on a chalkboard. And am I the only person in the world who does not trust someone who SMILES ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME??

And yes Biden was way too nice to her. I find it ironic that, before the debate, there was all this talk about how Biden shouldn't condescend to her or ridicule her and this and that, or he could be perceived as a bully, and yet IT WAS PALIN who made condescending and MOCKING comments and was chiding and smirking at him! And it's "cute" because she's a woman, right? You wanna talk about sexist, chew on that for a while.

I think Palin did well for herself, but only because she was looking like a bimbo recently, and there was very little expectation of her. But 80% of what she said sounded like a speech - she kind of reinded me of an actor who just does his lines and forges ahead in the scene with his own character rather than acting with the other actor. Biden however was natural, quick, addressed the important issues, said very intelligent, perceptive things - I mean man, when he said "The past is prologue"... Yet that comment was probably only appreciated by "elitists" and wasted on all the dumbasses.

I was mad though when Biden did not jump on Palin's comment, "John knows how to win a war." Um, what war did McCain win? Last I heard, America LOST Vietnam.

Phew!! I'm glad I got all that off my chest.

-- Edited by pinkkitty at 13:31, 2008-10-03

blink · Coach

Just had to add, Joe Biden was my favorite for President, (Chris Dodd was my second choice) but he dropped out well before the Texas primary vote. So I was thrilled that Obama picked him for VP, and I am pleased that the country now sees how presidential he can be. Yay!

Elle · Hermes

Pinkkitty - I think the buildup to the debate ended up working in Palin's favor. Everyone had such low expectations going in that as long as she didn't make any huuuge mistakes her performance would be considered a good one. Mission accomplished. My husband just about had a fit when she talked about supporting women's rights, though! I haven't heard anyone latch onto that yet ....

The Republican party is very good at using the media coverage to their advantage, and therefore seem to focus on what 'soundbites' will be played back over and over by every TV station around. Because in the end, those are the things that decide votes. It doesn't even matter if the phrases in question are true or not - if they're replayed enough, people believe them, and that's really the whole point anyway.

The elitist thing is a great example of a spin by the Reps - McCain is the one who grew up with money and got ahead in the armed forces because of his family and ownes more homes than he himself can remember (8 fwiw). Maybe that's more 'silver spoon'? But still, as Stewart pointed out on the Daily Show, didn't 'elite' used to mean 'good'?!

I hadn't seen too much of Biden before this debate, and I was pretty impressed. He seemed in command of the facts and issues, and I like that he already has his own well-formed opinions about things. The fact that he initially ran for the dem. nom. just shows he's prepared himself for such a task IMO.

Suasoria · Chanel

My brother has also been a Biden guy all along, and he describes this ticket as "like Star Trek, except Riker is the captain and Picard is the first mate."

I think she did adequate, far better in the first half and far worse in the second half when Biden finally woke up. As Elle said all she had to do was make sure people's expectations/opinions of her didn't fall any further. (But how many noticed her saying "McClellan" instead of "McKiernan" about the general in Afghanistan? Army general, press secretary, what's the diff, right? Wink!)

But whenever she had to leave a comfort zone where she could offer some of her stump speech highlights and push the cliche pedals like "maverick," I think she lost a lot of ground, tended to sidetrack herself, and flailed a bit in tangents that weren't related to the topic. And that bit about not answering the questions she's being asked? I don't find that charming, I find it tacky. No comment on her grating personal style such as mockery, overreligiosity, and faux folksiness.

And all Biden had to do was not come off like a wonky old man, and control his facial expressions when she spoke, which he did very well (although I did hear him sigh twice). I do think he let a lot of easy opportunities slip by, especially on McCain's record, and that's a bummer. I can't figure out why neither Biden nor Obama seem willing to challenge McCain on why Mr. War Hero votes against veterans' benefits.

CNN had undecided Ohio voters giving their impressions of the candidates during the broadcast, and I noticed that women turned those dials way, way up whenever Biden spoke. Chicks seem to dig him. Biden is smooth, like Bill Clinton kinda smooth, and he performs equally well at the backyard BBQ, the cocktail party, and the college party. I'm pretty sure Sarah gave him her number after.

EDIT: Actually there's two more annoyances I have to mention. Her grammar is terrible. She can't get plurals and singulars straight. She drops her Gs, as in "gettin', 'talkin', which may be fine with some people but not others. There were a bunch of other examples I can't think of right now.

AND, and this is the big one, Republicans need to learn OIL is not the same as ENERGY. They don't really want to talk about oil companies, which most voters dislike as much as HMOs, so lately they have been changing the spin to "energy." But there's much more to the energy discussion than drilling for oil, and the sad fact that they cannot separate the concept of oil from the concept of energy is a statement in and of itself.

-- Edited by Suasoria at 16:01, 2008-10-03

pinkkitty · BCBG

Elle wrote:

Pinkkitty - The Republican party is very good at using the media coverage to their advantage, and therefore seem to focus on what 'soundbites' will be played back over and over by every TV station around. Because in the end, those are the things that decide votes. It doesn't even matter if the phrases in question are true or not - if they're replayed enough, people believe them, and that's really the whole point anyway.

I hadn't seen too much of Biden before this debate, and I was pretty impressed. He seemed in command of the facts and issues, and I like that he already has his own well-formed opinions about things. The fact that he initially ran for the dem. nom. just shows he's prepared himself for such a task IMO.

So true about the "soundbytes"! For the same reason you said, my husband was screaming at Obama during the presidential debate for his repeatedly saying, "I agree with John." Has McCain's people not had a field day with this? I'm surprised if they haven't.